To be frustrated that Grammar schools are full of private tutored kids?

[Sammyp235]

So my DC sat the 11+ and passed it and was placed on a waiting list (number 10) to get in to local Grammar school.

490 kids sat test and there were 150 places provisionally set aside for the kids who scored the highest.

Now of it was an even playing field then that absolutely fair enough, but I know that it’s not. Many parents ‘prep’ their kids with a private tutor for years in some cases.

I know this as I have a couple of friends who are private tutors and we’re surprised when I said DC was going to sit the entrance test without any previous tutoring. They both advised they’ve tutored kids for up to 2 years prior 😳

There’s a child in DD’s class who’s had years of private tutoring and secured a place (it’s common knowledge and said child happily discusses it with other classmates and it was with the purpose of getting in to this grammar school)

I’m frustrated that the schools website says you don’t need any extra tutoring. The reality is that should be the case, but that leaves those that can’t afford it at a disadvantage as there are definitely plenty of kids that get the extra help then get the places.

There’s 3 kids in DC class that all have private tutors and all secured a place.

I’m of the opinion that if you need a private tutor for you DC for several months/years to pass the 11+ then perhaps it isn’t the school for your DC.

I find it annoying that so many kids have the advantage over others and take up the places. Of course if you have the money then fair enough, why wouldn’t you get private tutors in. I don’t blame the parents, but I feel that school should not have stated you don’t need extra tuition. You absolutely do as your up against it if not!!

I just feel frustrated for those kids that have a natural aptitude and academic ability, but are up against those who have been tutored to the max. It’s not an even playing field at all.....

Oh and I had to laugh to myself when one of the said mums asked me what ‘rank’ my child was placed in (none of her business) and said ‘oh so out of 500+ places your DC is 160th most intelligent 😳..... I was dying to say ‘erm actually it wasn’t an even playing fiend though was it?’

@C0ldtea

I mean do you take everything literally??? I told you before exactly what I mean avd yet you’re still focusing on the semantics of the title?!? 😳

You know exactly what I mean. Clearly it’s hit a nerve, although no idea why, it’s my opinion.

Going back to your comment about private tutors and that they’re here to stay. I wish every child had access to a private tutor, then it would be fair and there would be a good few kids (not ALL before you jump on that too) but a good few who wouldn’t get in to the grammar school because o my then would it be based solely on ability. So yes private tutors are great, just sad that not everyone can access them.

Not everybody can access a good primary or a school that is in a country funded properly or live in a house with books..... not getting your point.

@Oblomov19

Yes I am pissed off with myself that I did t take it more seriously. I could have afforded a tutor but I was naive. My worry was and would still be though that I’d need to keep it up.

At that point before she passed it, on her own, I wouldn’t have known whether she passed it due to the extra tuition or whether she would have passed it without it. So my worry was that I wouldn’t have been able to afford to continue with the private tutor. As it happens, she passed a test with nothing but now the decision has been taken out of my hands.... it’s my tough luck but we live and learn

Both of my sons are in Grammar school and did attend 1hr of tutoring most Saturdays 6 months to the exams plus our home practice with them and both got into a Bucks Grammar sch. Bucks has loads of Grammar schools but the state schools where I live were mostly Needs improvement or special measures. Who wants their children in such schools, certainly not me. We didn't have money at the time as my husb and I were studying full time then but paid for it by prioritising our children's education. They are excelling exceptionally and have never been tutored since getting in. Infact they have won lots of awards in school and been in the newspaper for best results. Whether you tutor your child or not your child will excel no matter which school they attend is my view so its down to you as a parent to do right by your children.

@C0ldtea

I don’t get what you mean actually.....?

@obi2uk

Sounds like your two would have passed anyway if they’re doing that well

You said you wanted all kids to have access to tutoring to make it fair but not all kids are lucky enough to go to a good primary or to live in a house with books which have a much bigger impact so life would still not be fair.

@C0ldtea

If you mean that it’s not just intelligence that plays a role in how well a child succeeds then I agree, but that’s my reason for debate.

Circumstances surrounding the child will impact and this is where grammars are supposed to build the gap and sadly that’s often not the case. It’s the kids with access to books, educated, etc etc that are often in the position to pay for such tutors thus increasing the advantage again.

Grammars aren’t supposed to fill the gap pp funding is.

@C0ldtea

I agree with your last post but that’s the bigger social issue and divide between the rich and poor. Grammar schools we’re supposed to bridge that gap but they generally don’t, if anything they facilitate it to become wider

That and the many interventions laid in by all schools.

@C0ldtea

Then the whole debate starts again by which the whole system is flawed.

How do they? There are hardly any and they are groaning at the seams and underfunded.

And why were you entering your dd if they’re so unfair.?

Because the kids from poor backgrounds haven’t really got a hope in hell to pass the 11+

Because it’s a good school.

Of course they have. Many pass and are in grammar schools.

And because she’s naturally clever

All kids in grammars are naturally clever.

Many grammars prioritise pp kids now. They only have to pass the exam which isn’t hard then go to the top of the queue.

So you’re suggesting that kids from less affluent backgrounds where parents can’t afford to pay for private tutors often get a place in the back of being clever? M

So then why the need for private tuition in the first place? If it’s as simple as you lass if you’re bright enough?

Pass*

Yes many kids get in without tutoring and as I said many grammars now prioritise pp kids ie they just have to pass and then go to the top of the queue for places.

And if a parent thinks their child is smart enough anyway to pass with it without tuition? Why would they pay? Clearly it’s beneficial.... otherwise they’d just sit back and assume their bright kid would pass.

Some of that and they do pass.