Should this event that happened at school be punished?

[Mortifiedmummy12]

Ds borrows friend his phone and friend runs off as to make ds miss the bus as he can’t leave without his phone. Ds pleads to have it back but friend carries on taunting him and putting it in his bag ect. Ds snaps and kicks him in the leg so friend drops it ( friend usually kicks ds for no reason). Friend then kicks him back and throws phone on floor and walks off too his detention. Who is in the wrong and should this be punished?. Both are sorted now however , a teacher witnessed some of it.

Mortifiedmummy12

I wonder if being provoked is the excuse he gives for his other 26 detentions + 50 warnings (given the system that the school uses).

But then with friends like these etc.

It may be used colloquially but it is still incorrect.

Malmi- quite.
I'm sure David Crystal and other real linguists would feel the same. It is David, after all, who says "if it is used, it is correct".
However, the terminally nasty won't have any of that, and prefer to jump on a poster for a perceived slight to the English language (even when their own usage is eyebrow-raisingly less than perfect.
Nor will they be aware that, etymologically speaking, in the olden days, there was only one word for lend/borrow (from Latin) which is why, in Italian etc, there is still only one word.
Those darn Anglo-Saxons then came along and made the SpaG tests think it was their birthday

I'm sure David Crystal and other real linguists would feel the same. It is David, after all, who says "if it is used, it is correct".

I have a huge amount of respect for David Crystal, but we wouldn't say this for other subjects - that 2+2 = 5 if enough people believed it; or that Berlin is the capital of France.

I know that language is malleable, but how many people need to get something wrong before it's accepted as right? Should we accept that the sentence "Him should of offered too pay for there drinks as well as he's" is correct, just because a lot of people would write it (or one or more elements of it), believing it to be good English?

You miss the point. Which is really, whatever language someone uses (and we are moving well away from prescriptive AND proscriptive rule teaching in modern pedagogy) there is no need, on a mammy forum, to be a twat about it, and make an OP feel bad.
It's not my job to correct a Mumsnetter's English. It's not anybody's. Unless Muphry comes into play, when of course I do it gleefully.
Thankfully, as can be seen from this thread and others, HQ are now deleting comments made by people who make no other contribution other than to make an OP feel like shit because they used the wrong word.

Think about it, seriously, for a tiny second. Is there really any need (noting especially the poster who FOUR pages and 20 identical comments later decided to say "has anybody said yet that it's lend not borrow") EVER, unless someone is asking "is this correct?" to point out someone's mistakes? Really? On an internet forum?

It's just done always to be a bitch and to score points over someone that you have decided is not as intelligent as you. It's done by arseholes, pure and simple.

I personally have not and would not comment on an individual's use of spelling or grammar as I agree that would be nasty and unnecessary. I would only make an exception to this if a poster had deliberately fired the opening salvo and written something like "AIBU to think that poor grammar use should simply not be excepted?"

My response is purely to the discussion that this thread has widened into concerning good/bad and acceptable/unacceptable grammar in general. I intend no condemnation or criticism of any individual.

I will simply say that the idea of language is to communicate with other people and when somebody's written command of their own native language is so poor that they genuinely cannot make themselves understood to others who ostensibly speak the same language, it is not showing that person a kindness by saying "If you chose to express yourself that way, then it can't be incorrect use of language."

I don't think the vast majority of potential employers would take the trouble to phone the applicant to ask them to clarify their incomprehensible CV, so as not to put them at a disadvantage in maybe getting the job - it would just go straight in the bin.

Re lend/borrow this needs to be a different thread really but hay. In some regions including east Midlands where I live borrow is interchangeable to lend. It's not a wrong or used mistakenly it's a regional variation. I know it's confusing as I lived in the east mids two thirds of my life and still get confused by it. Now stop making the poor woman feel bad about having a different upbringing to you

Nor will they be aware that, etymologically speaking, in the olden days, there was only one word for lend/borrow (from Latin) which is why, in Italian etc, there is still only one word.

In Italian you'd say to give or to take a loan. If someone used the wrong word it would still reverse the meaning in the same way that OP did.

Regardless, I don't think that's an argument for being able to use any word to mean whatever we want it to in English.

Some PPs were a bit arsey but the first sentence has a completely opposite meaning to it's intent, as written, and the OP will be better off for understanding the difference.

I think it's patronising to suggest that's someone with a regional dialect doesn't need to be able to use words in the correct sense and to communicate clearly.

Honestly, many linguists do take a descriptive view of language Vs a prescriptive one, but that's neither here nor there because pulling apart someone's language on an internet forum is just ridiculous pendantry.
See also when people say "but I'm sure people will turn up and CLAIM it's regional when it's just wrong". They think they're showing some sort of superior knowledge but actually it shows their ignorance because:

1. Standard English is one version of English and regional varieties exist (often with preserved features from older English forms than the new 'rules')
2. An online message forum wouldn't be a place where you'd expect standard English so anyone using regional forms is entirely appropriate in their language use.
3. The principles of conversation include relevance, and it's not relevant to ignore the whole point of someone's thread to tell them they've missed an apostrophe

I'd be amazed if the SPaG and language police have ever studied linguistics or if it's the case, as ever, it's people with some knowledge of a topic thinking they know a lot more than they actually do and gain ego points by being an arse to people online

Eg. Yes you found your husband balls deep in your best friend, but might I point out to you that your use of "there" was incorrect in your OP.

Yes my son lent it to the other boy as other boy has no phone (broken) and needed to text his dad about the detention apparently.

A school must give at least 24 hours' written notice of a detention to the parent. The school I worked at used text messages unless the detentions were only ten minutes. So I doubt the dad was unaware of the detention, so someone's telling porkies.

A school must give at least 24 hours' written notice of a detention to the parent.

That is not the case in England, not sure about the rest of the UK. It used to be the case some years ago.

ThatLibraryMiss

A school must give at least 24 hours' written notice of a detention to the parent.

This is no longer the case But most schools give at least 24 hrs notice for a detention.

Re lend/borrow this needs to be a different thread really but hay. In some regions including east Midlands where I live borrow is interchangeable to lend. It's not a wrong or used mistakenly it's a regional variation.

Exactly.

I wouldn't use the words interchangeable but lots of my schoolmates did. I've heard it used by people being I interviewed on tv and at other times so I'm sure it didn't cause that much confusion.