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Protestors climb on train

599 replies

omikron · 17/10/2019 07:52

What on earth to ER hope to achieve this morning?! Such arseholes

OP posts:
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7
Hmmpop · 18/10/2019 12:05

I've been involved in these XR protests. I joined the movement as I feel terrified about what climate change means for my child (and everyone else), and totally helpless to do anything about it. There seems to be no urgency about the seriousness of the situation from the government or the general population.

Some of the stereotypes being shouted about (very aggressively) in this thread are true, it is a very white middle class movement, something I have felt unhappy about so have been trying to get involved in projects to make the movement more diverse. I think that ultimately a failure to do so could totally undermine XR, and quite rightly.

Having said this, the vast majority of the people I have met have been pretty 'ordinary'. I am not aware of any trust fund eco-fascist anarchists benefit fraudsters. I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm sure they do. I am a single parent who went to my local state comp, have a job, and a bar of soap that I regularly use to wash myself.

The poll that was conducted BEFORE the tube action went ahead showed that the vast majority of XR members were against it. Lots and lots of people expressed that they thought this was a very bad idea. Many of us are incredibly upset that it went ahead, for all the reasons people have set out here.

The arguments about people in XR using phones and buses and wearing clothes and generally not sitting in a field in rags eating mud are frustrating. On the one hand we're a load of crusties that refuse to wash, on the other if we have a job in anything other than a vegan social enterprise cafe we are a bunch of hypocrites.

I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to spend my days off standing in the rain, blocking roads and getting sworn at, giving out leaflets and otherwise being uncomfortable, knackered and cold. Unfortunately I really don't know what else I can do to try and make a difference.

BloodyDisgrace · 18/10/2019 12:10

I watched a few videos. The gentleman in a suit - a protester who got pulled down from the roof of a train - actually kicked the passenger first. He could have moved away but chose to attack. I condemn those who might have attacked him once he was on the floor (it's impossible to see what happened) too.
But: I'd rather hear some actual proposals from ER than disruption to people's lives.

MarieVanGoethem · 18/10/2019 12:11

Oh & re: farming, London had stopped being able to produce enough food for its population by the start of the early modern period. When the city was both smaller & vastly less densely populated. Even if we turned all the parks into farms (which would be a disaster for all the children & young people with nowhere else to play/socialise safely & frankly pretty shitty for the entire population) it wouldn’t be possible to produce nearly enough food...

ArcheryAnnie · 18/10/2019 12:41

The arguments about people in XR using phones and buses and wearing clothes and generally not sitting in a field in rags eating mud are frustrating. On the one hand we're a load of crusties that refuse to wash, on the other if we have a job in anything other than a vegan social enterprise cafe we are a bunch of hypocrites.

This. The "oho an XR protestor handing a bus driver chocolate which contained PALM OIL!" comments are ridiculous. We are all trapped in a system which does not, for the most part, allow us to live a carbon-neutral life.

All of the people I know who protest are doing their bit, as best as they can, to create alternatives. Some of them are doing better than others. Some, well, have a fair way to go. Being part of a protest doesn't mean that people aren't trying other ways to make a difference, too.

ppeatfruit · 18/10/2019 12:58

How strange that people aren't even thinking hypothetically about making changes in their lifestyles. eg in farming It's easy to scoff, but we won't have the option when we're all under water. If everything continues the same way we haven't much time.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 18/10/2019 13:00

It's not the role of ER to tell the government & global corps what to do - there is years and years worth of expert advice and guides and proposals and science and data and shit like that. XR aren't scientists or experts, they are mostly ordinary people who are in the lucky position of being able to take time out of their lives to shout at the government to try and make them just fucking do something.

Check out the Committee on Climate Change report here: www.theccc.org.uk/tackling-climate-change/reducing-carbon-emissions/how-the-uk-is-progressing/

The government know what needs to be done. They don't need XR to spend years on working out detailed policy & action plans when that is already out there in spades.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 18/10/2019 13:04

Governments all over the world have been failing to deliver on their commitments on climate change since the Rio Summit in 1992.

People have been saying this stuff since before Thatcher - if we'd done what we said we would, the world wouldn't be in this mess. This anger is what is driving people to blockade cities.

We failed at Rio, we failed to deliver the Kyoto protocol, we're failing at the Paris agreement and now Donald Trump won't even discuss climate change at the G7 next year.

It's absolutely fucking despicable.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 18/10/2019 13:06

How strange that people aren't even thinking hypothetically about making changes in their lifestyles. eg in farming

How much farming should I aim to do in my windowboxes? Or do you mean that I should jack in my job and become a Land Girl?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 18/10/2019 13:10

I have a north facing balcony. I grow fuck all.

MarshaBradyo · 18/10/2019 13:11

It’s good some XR people have come in the thread to explain why they’ve joined.

ppeatfruit · 18/10/2019 13:18

Buying organically for example, Bright become part of the solution not the cause, and there is no need to be so combative. There are many unemployed people who could do the job of farming instead of having tons of pesticides etc. thrown on the land that makes the food taste of nothing and have no vitamins creating bad health. Without the killing of the wildlife.

There will have to be subsidies for it.

tumbleisatwat · 18/10/2019 13:22

@ppeatfruit

You have no idea how offensive that post is, do you?

fromdownwest · 18/10/2019 13:26

@ppeatfruit - Once again the staggering ignorance of your movement is outstanding. The area that the protesters targeted is not overly affluent as you know, and people watch every single penny. Telling them to buy organic, with what exactly? Their mass disposable income?

The irony of you being upset by the combative verbal responses, when XR has held London's transport network to ransom over the past week is not lost on me.

Grumpelstilskin · 18/10/2019 13:26

@ppeatfruit WTF!!! Why not just reintroduce poorhouses and make those feckless layabouts work for their daily bread....

Dramaofallama · 18/10/2019 13:32

There are many unemployed people who could do the job of farming instead of having tons of pesticides etc.

Confused Wasn't that the same reasoning they had for the work houses and laundrettes?
nononever · 18/10/2019 13:34

I have a north facing balcony. I grow fuck all.

Got a spare room to house a few rabbits?

There are many unemployed people who could do the job of farming

ppeatfruit do you grow your own fruit and veg and plenty of land at your disposal? Do you have a full time job doing something else?

BrightYellowDaffodil · 18/10/2019 13:39

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derxa · 18/10/2019 13:43

There are many unemployed people who could do the job of farming I can't even begin to address this...

milveycrohn · 18/10/2019 13:47

There is a lot we can do as individuals to reduce our carbon footprint.
In many ways, everyone commuting to work is already being changed. Many workers can now work from home, on occasions, some all the time. One former colleague worked one week in the office, followed by one week at home. Another colleague, worked 2 days a week from home. Office space in London is very expensive, and my last office, deliberately had insufficient office space, on the basis that some people are on leave, or out sick, or visiting elsewhere, and some working from home, and ‘hot-desking’ the rest. Meetings used skype or lync with various different locations. This technology is already happening, and is improving all the time.
Obviously, there are loads of occupations for which this cannot be achieved (doctors, nurses, teachers, shop workers, cleaners, police, to name a few), but I see a future where more and more ‘office’ style jobs can be worked from home, thus reducing both the need for commuter transport, but our commuting time. However, this takes time to achieve.
Similarly, we now operate in a global economy, with food being transported around the world. It would be better for our carbon footprint, if we tried to eat mainly locally grown food, rather than food imported from around the world.
However, this means the type of food being restricted to what can be grown in this country, and seasonal food as well. I believe we only produce about 80 percent of our food, and I am not sure whether this takes into account food exports, or the fields left empty under EU payments. This also does not take into account that some countries have vast economies of scale, making their produce much cheaper than our own. We do not want to go back to the Corn Laws, where imported grain was restricted. So, although I say that maybe we should try and eat mainly home grown food, this clearly is impractical, and would probably be more expensive.
We can, however, all do own own bit, by reducing our own carbon footprint, by, say, reducing the number of showers we have? Walk, instead of using the car, etc. Is this feasible?
We can also reduce the number of flights we take. Over the last 50 years flights have become much cheaper, and some people take several holidays abroad each year. However, pricing restrictions, always seems to disproportionately affect the poor, who would not be able to have their one holiday in Spain each year. So, I am not in favour of this at all.
And to the poster who said we should downgrade our economy – this means our country would become much poorer, and our Government have less money to try and include some of the much wanted green policies.
Stopping ordinary people trying to get to work by public transport is not the answer, in my opinion.

RedDogsBeg · 18/10/2019 13:58

There are many unemployed people who could do the job of farming

Pol Pot forced the intelligentsia, the wealthy and well educated into the fields and that was such a stunning success wasn't it? ppeatfruit would like to force the unemployed, irrespective of their abilities, aptitude and skills to work the fields. This an argument with as much intelligence as the 'bring back conscription to get dissolute youth off the streets' trope.

No doubt ppeatfruit would also like them to carry the food they have grown and harvested in sacks on their backs to her/his door so they can bestow their benevolence and funds upon these workers. Here's a radical idea ppeatfruit why don't all those currently employed and advocating working on the land jack in their jobs and do it? The currently unemployed could then take over the vacated jobs, or doesn't that work due to the same criteria of aptitude, ability, skills, etc?

pppeatfruit your lack of knowledge of farming and food production would be funny if it wasn't so woeful and patronising.

Hollycatberry · 18/10/2019 14:09

Is this not the crux of the issue?

On the one hand the suggestions to make moderate lifestyle changes - more walking, paper straws, reusable plastics, recycling etc, are easy to make but have little impact in the grand scheme of things so a lot of people won't be persuaded to change. Or even if we as a nation make all those changes, you aren't going to see the effects of climate change alter much.

Then we get to extreme solutions like banning car ownership, banning flying, banning gas boilers, state rationing of meat and forced labour into food production that are completely unpalatable for most people to even consider.

The vast majority of us have reasonably comfortable lives. I will make all the sensible lifestyle changes I can, but (selfishly) I'm never going to favour the extreme solutions being proposed. I don't think I'm alone. So we end up at an impasse, until companies and technology can deliver some bigger changes that don't result in lifestyle compromise (e.g. a hybrid planes, carbon neutral energy).

Things like stopping rainforests being cut down are also obvious things to tackle, but the political issues around this are massive and again, there won't be quick solutions.

So all the XR disruption may be great at getting headlines and getting politicians to declare climate emergencies, but the underlying problems are all still there and there is a sense that ordinary people are getting the punishment rather than XR focusing their attention on the users of private jets and countries that are setting up new coal power stations.

HelenaDove · 18/10/2019 14:33

There is no better example than this to show that the hard left are just as dangerous to working class people as the hard right and i say that as a left wing person which my posting history will attest to.

ItIsWhatItIsInnit · 18/10/2019 14:45

This idea that we’ve all got to go vegan and that will save the world is ridiculous - the sort of intensive farming that would involve would be terrible for the environment.

The vast majority of crops grown on the planet is for farm animal feed. So we have more than enough for humans...

What a PP said. Small changes you can pat yourself on the back for will make no real difference, and big radical changes (everyone farming, working in manual jobs in their local town and mending all their belongings) will make quality of life so shit that no-one will vote for them. Even if quality of life post-climate-catastrophe will be like The Road - people aren't going to make their life shit now to save themselves from something that they aren't sure will happen, that could be decades or more away. Especially people who literally struggle to feed their family already.

Ultimately the only solution we can hope for is that science/tech comes up with some crazy new inventions (e.g. make energy from water, hoover up all the CO2) that reverse this whole thing.

Davros · 18/10/2019 14:55

Has anyone read Solar by Ian McEwan? You need a sense of humour though.

littlepaddypaws · 18/10/2019 15:05

china, america among other pollute more than the uk does, bigger countries for a start but no one seems to be tackling them and being a pain in the arse to people trying to live their daily lives.
they are terrorists without weapons.

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