To not like to hear people being described as toxic?

[Wanttosleep92]

Am I the only one who feels a bit sad at the tendency to describe people as ‘toxic’? I seem to be seeing it all the time - I follow a social media account promoting ‘positive mental health’ and they just shared a quote about cutting toxic people out. I do get not speaking to certain people for your own self preservation but I just hate the word toxic in that it seems to imply that a person is irrevocably bad/irredeemable. It just doesn’t seem very charitable or forgiving or nuanced. It also makes me dwell on my own past mistakes, I hate that there are people out there who would probably describe me as toxic... maybe I’m being naive but I just wish people could be a bit more forgiving and loving to one another instead of dismissing people as toxic for any bad behaviour

@Kesstrel
But it’s wrong to say that psychologists refuse to classify them as mental illnesses because they can’t be treated and perpetuating this myth is really unhelpful.

There are lots of types of personality disorder, many of which do respond to treatment. Psychologists are hugely valuable within that process, so whilst personality disorder isn’t a mental illness per se which could be treated with medication, it is a mental health problem and a combination of therapy and medication can have a huge impact on people’s lives.

@Poignet

So why not say ‘my mother behaves badly towards me’ and ‘ I hate my mother’

Not aimed at me I know, but I had an emotionally abusive grandmother. She could be described as behaving in a toxic way towards her grandchildren, but I still loved her. So hate would have been the wrong word and 'behaves badly' doesn't quite cover it.

Walk I agree that borderline personality disorder can be treated, provided the individual recognises the problem and wishes to be helped. Perhaps I should have made that clear in my first post.

However, I think the nature of the links I cited make it clear that I am particularly concerned with the Dark Triad disorders. And I haven't seen any evidence that people with those conditions can be successfully treated.

There is a reason why individuals cannot be sectioned for being sociopathic, even though psychiatrists may believe there is a strong likelihood that they will harm others. This is the distinction that I referred to, and why psychiatrists for ethical reasons have refused to classify them as "mentally ill" because there is no known treatment.

To rephrase what I said above, there is no known cure. Some treatments may possibly make them less inclined to violence; although alternatively, they may just give them the social and self-control skills they need to avoid being caught.

However, violence is not the only damage sociopaths commit. High functioning sociopaths can seriously damage people emotionally and financially. And they are disproportionately damaging because they tend to move on to new targets fairly frequently.

I think the word is overused but there are most definitely toxic people around. In some cases someone's behaviour may have an awful effect on someone else and it ends up being a toxic situation with horrible consequences but it might be that they're 2 people who are a disaster together, not much more. In other instances I've seen some truly disturbing and horrific behaviour exhibited by the same person against whoever they come across and I'd describe those as toxic people- people who do twisted things to everyone and leave a trail of devastation everywhere they go, there's no other way to describe them but toxic

I think people are quick to use the term, I'd save toxic for the really vile horrible people, women beaters, rapists, the scum of the earth kind of people.
I cut my dad out of my life, he's not a good dad, bounced in and out of my life when he felt like it, caused nothing but problems for me and I decided me and my DC would be better off without him in out lives, I wouldn't describe him as toxic though, although he's a shitty dad I know he's not a totally bad man and has some good traits. I wouldn't call him toxic, he's just lazy and self centred.

Toxic to me is someone really vile.

I think it's mealy-mouthed to talk about toxic, abusive or volatile relationships when that is hiding the fact that one person is behaving badly towards another. It's more than halfway to colluding and victim-blaming.

Some people really are nasty pieces of work who blight the lives of everyone close to them and, while not writing anyone off as irredeemable, it seems fair to use toxic as shorthand for this.

When a friendship goes sour or someone acts selfishly it seems harsh to use the term though.

I think people are quick to use the term, I'd save toxic for the really vile horrible people, women beaters, rapists, the scum of the earth kind of people.

I disagree.

The type of people you mention are not one dimensional either. In fact, the fact that abusers are often plausible, cheerful people, that rapists friends or families would never believe it possible of them is part of the problem.

My mum would never do any of those things. I wouldn't go as far to say she is toxic, but she's definitely bloody difficult, and it affects every single relationship she has.

Toxic is a very good word to describe someone whose character and behaviour negatively affect everyone or the majority of people in their lives.

@kesstrel I think you and I have had some similar experiences. As they say, the best trick the Devil ever managed was to convince people he doesn't exist.

No, I’ve not been called toxic. I’ve also never seriously been actively nasty to anybody that I can think of. However, I have of course made mistakes in my life - like when I was 18 I was unwittingly ‘the other woman’ and as a result a relationship broke up because of me. I think both parties would describe me as toxic to this day, but I would behave completely differently faced with the same situation today over a decade later. I just don’t like the fact that I’ve hurt people and that there are people who’ll therefore probably regard me as toxic because of it.

Appreciate my own argument is a bit weak though - if my rapist truly mourned his actions and felt real remorse, what does that make him? Forever a toxic person regardless?

I absolutely get that people aren’t obligated to forgive one another, though

@kesstrel, you are spot on. The estimates are based on those who have been caught for criminal activity however Hare recognises this maybe inaccurate/low.

Many sociopaths are not violent. My Ex h would fall into this category as he has a high profile job that he values. He however meets the criteria for sociopathy. Based on this I suspect the % are underestimated. Many people may have met a sociopath but would be unaware as they are outwardly charming. Their intimate partners often know different. I have had relationships end before and there is often poor behaviour on both sides but a sociopath takes it to another level as their lack of empathy means they can inflict damage that no "normal" person would.

I was the daughter who was told to look for the good in everyone and people can change which is why I was the perfect victim. My children know differently now and anyone who has been unlucky enough to be involved with a sociopath will say the same thing.

OP, I would not necessarily describe an OW as toxic and would tend to use terms such as gullible, naive, arrogant, needy or lacking in self esteem.
It is a pattern of behaviour which consistently shows zero conscious, no empathy, manipulation skills and a need for power.

I think most people would forgive the love life mistakes of an 18 year old. It would be different if this was something you'd kept doing as you got older.