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Original poster

To not like to hear people being described as toxic?

112 replies

Wanttosleep92 · 14/10/2019 07:46

Am I the only one who feels a bit sad at the tendency to describe people as ‘toxic’? I seem to be seeing it all the time - I follow a social media account promoting ‘positive mental health’ and they just shared a quote about cutting toxic people out. I do get not speaking to certain people for your own self preservation but I just hate the word toxic in that it seems to imply that a person is irrevocably bad/irredeemable. It just doesn’t seem very charitable or forgiving or nuanced. It also makes me dwell on my own past mistakes, I hate that there are people out there who would probably describe me as toxic...Blush maybe I’m being naive but I just wish people could be a bit more forgiving and loving to one another instead of dismissing people as toxic for any bad behaviour

OP posts:
thecatsthecats · 14/10/2019 15:59

I just feel like everyone is going around seething with everybody else and the world seems very unforgiving at times.

If it helps, I have a very zen attitude to people in my life.

There are seven billion humans on this planet. I'm not convinced that I need to put up with shitty behaviour from some of them - I have options when it comes to human warmth and kindness!

You can be kind. You can be calm. You can be detached. You don't need to keep specific people in your life to do that.

TiddyTid · 14/10/2019 16:00

Toxic is quicker to type than shithouse

ContessaLovesTheSunshine · 14/10/2019 16:19

I don't think I agree with you OP. If a person is behaving in a way that is toxic and not just irritating or temporarily inconvenient (for example), then I'll call them that. Own your behaviour.

I get quite angry with the forgiveness argument. I try hard to listen to my DH and defend his interests. He doesn't for me. When I tell him this and announce that I will adopt his behaviour from now on, he gets very annoyed and loftily tells me that it's petty and horrid of me to not continue to be nice to him while he does fuck all for me. I ignore this and stop being nice to him. He then starts being nice to me in order to make himself look noble. I dare to hope, am nice to him again... and after a while he goes right back to fucking normal. That's where forgiveness and being a kind person has got me.

FudgeBrownie2019 · 14/10/2019 22:00

I just feel like everyone is going around seething with everybody else and the world seems very unforgiving at times.

Forgiving someone doesn't mean waiting about for the next instalment of their dogshit behaviour. Sometimes forgiveness is simply moving on and letting go. Because forgiveness is rarely about the person needing forgiveness, is it? It's almost always about the person needing to forgive, who often forgets that they have the right to walk away and no longer engage in the nonsense.

I don't hold any hatred towards anyone. None. It's pointless and a waste of my energy. I simply cut people out who don't deserve my time, energy and love. No resentment, no hate, not catcalling or bitching. Just gliding away serenely to continue living happily without arseholes.

AgentJohnson · 15/10/2019 05:17

My job is to Police my boundaries and if someone chooses to overstep them it isn’t my job to rehabilitate them.

TottieandMarchpane · 15/10/2019 07:27

I just feel like everyone is going around seething with everybody else and the world seems very unforgiving at times.

Recognising someone’s toxicity is nothing to do with seething. Rather the opposite. It should be the language of someone who is disengaging.

SnuggyBuggy · 15/10/2019 07:33

Is it not more likely that in the past people took shit that they shouldn't have? I knew a nice lady in her sixties who was treated like dirt by some horrible family members and was baffled by how their own children had nothing to do with them.

Anger isn't good but neither is being a doormat and I'm glad more people realise this these days.

IfIHadAPenny · 15/10/2019 07:38

You haven't addressed the question to you, OP, have you been called toxic?

Is this about you behaving in a certain way and wanting people to have more compassion for you?

kesstrel · 15/10/2019 07:57

Personality disorders exist. Psychologists refuse to classify them as mental illnesses because they are (thus far) untreatable. One in every 100 males is a sociopath. Sociopaths do untold damage in our society to other people, many of them targetting vulnerable individuals. This is all scientifially proven by psychologists who study this area.

Pretending these facts are not real may make someone feel better; but they also leave you (and your children) open to damage and abuse if you are unlucky enough to be selected as a victim, and unprepared enough to not recognise what they are doing and retreat from the situation.

kesstrel · 15/10/2019 08:05

Also: the idea that "everyone can change" is what leads to girls and young women staying in relationships with abusers. Men with manipulative and toxic personalities use that belief to their own advantage. And they tend to target "nice" girls and women who will make excuses for them and keep forgiving their behaviour.

If you have daughters, protect them by letting them understand that abusers with "toxic" personality disorders exist, that they won't change, and that there are warning signs and patterns of behaviour that can help them recognise this. Don't tell them that "everyone can change" FGS!

Ihateedmundelephant · 15/10/2019 08:09

Some people ARE toxic though. It would be nice to believe that there is hope for everyone to change but I’m not convinced that’s the case.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 15/10/2019 08:15

A toxic person isn't going to change. A normal person who has behaved a bit shitty can change, but that person isn't a toxic person.

OhioOhioOhio · 15/10/2019 08:22

Poignet

Some people ARE toxic.

WalkofShame · 15/10/2019 08:22

Personality disorders exist. Psychologists refuse to classify them as mental illnesses because they are (thus far) untreatable. One in every 100 males is a sociopath. Sociopaths do untold damage in our society to other people, many of them targetting vulnerable individuals. This is all scientifially proven by psychologists who study this area

Where do you get this information from. It’s completely untrue Confused

I came on to say that there are toxic people out there, just like there are people with a narcissistic personality disorder. However, it’s no where near as common as you’d think from reading mumsnet. There are absolutely people out there who are toxic or have NPD but equally there are people out there who are using the label to describe behaviour they don’t like and it is falling into common parlance. A bit like the whole ‘meltdown / tantrum’ discussion.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 15/10/2019 08:25

I quite like the term it’s suits some people like my mother

She is highly narcissistic (not a narcissist - we all have narcissistic traits) and she is spiteful

She had always put herself first and will make those small remarks that she knows will get to me and try to sabotage the less I have to do with her the better

She isn’t a nice person and chooses to be she can change but only if she wants to. She has little respect of other people feelings but strangely can be empathetic at times towards other people but not her own daughter (or sister)

kesstrel · 15/10/2019 08:38

Narcissistic personality disorder is a different diagnosis to sociopathy, although there is some overlap.

Antisocial personality disorder (APD) is a broader diagnosis, affecting around 3-4% of males.

www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/antisocial-personality-disorder

However, within that diagnosis, there are individuals who are high on the Psychopathy Checklist, and constitute around 1% according to a landmark study by Neuman and Hare in 2008. (The word sociopathy tends to be used interchangeably with psychopathy.) Other studies suggest this population could be lower; but it also depends on how high scoring on the checklist you want to draw the line for a diagnosis.

But does it really matter whether one in every hundred or one in every 200? It still means there are enough of them around to cause serious damage to anyone who is not careful.

And individuals do not have to be fully diagnosable to have sufficient traits to cause damage to vulnerable people.

SnuggyBuggy · 15/10/2019 08:41

I know a lot of people who just don't believe in psychopaths (people who operate without a moral conscience) and think everyone has the potential to be good. It does make them vulnerable.

WalkofShame · 15/10/2019 08:41

The point kesstrel is that you are conflating lots of different issues here with a tiny amount of information and sending out a message which is (as a result), completely wrong and very unhelpful for anyone experiencing or affected in any way by these issues.

Kaddm · 15/10/2019 08:46

It’s probably used a bit too lightly. However, some people are thoroughly toxic. They upset an entire office or an entire group of people. They do it wherever they go. I’m not talking about people who aren’t great socially, they are fine. I’m talking about people who are actively nasty. Unfortunately a minority of people are nasty and toxic. They are spoiling for a scrap wherever they go and these people are best avoided.

kesstrel · 15/10/2019 08:49

If anyone is interested in more information about this issue, this article is a good starting point:

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/toxic-relationships/201812/beware-the-malevolent-dark-triad

kesstrel · 15/10/2019 08:52

sending out a message which is (as a result), completely wrong and very unhelpful for anyone experiencing or affected in any way by these issues.

I and my family have been very seriously affected by these issues. I assure you that it would have been very helpful to have had the information I have cited above - it might have prevented it happening to us.

Andsoitisjust99 · 15/10/2019 08:56

I agree. I have cut certain people off that others will be able to have a relationship with, fine. There is a degree to which I make them insecure/I particularly find their behaviour hard to deal with because of my prior experiences. That isn’t to say their behaviour wasn’t really poor, but I don’t demand everyone cuts them off. However there are people who are so extreme that they might behave criminally (I’ve had this, sadly). I try to hope they will meet someone who will stop them in their tracks and help them change. It’s not always my job to sort them out.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 15/10/2019 09:02

Labelling a person toxic doesn’t stop myself or I believe others in being able to see the wrong in what we do - no one is perfect we can all be selfish and at times horrible to others but it’s how we act after this. It’s a description of how certain people have impacted our lives and often continue to it’s not always so simple to cut them off

Difference being I have said some mean things in an argument, been selfish and snapped at ds - but I take responsibility for my actions and feel guilty and try not to repeat those actions, I apologize (which of course doesn’t make it all ok)

My toxic mother never ever takes responsibility it’s always someone else’s fault and will purposely hurt/or trey to make others question themselves. Her life now is a mess but that is down to her pushing everyone who has been kind to her away. she will attract similar minded people and they all relish in their own self belief of superiority. What mother would sit back and let a friend bitch about their own daughter

I truly wish I had a different mother and I will feel relief when she dies - I love her and care about her but I really dislike her - that’s how it is for many of us who have these relationships with our family sadly it’s impacted me my whole life

Difficultcustomer · 15/10/2019 09:11

I hate that there are people out there who would probably describe me as toxic

Op - can you write to any of these people apologising and then then let them take up the running if they want to? So don’t chase it up at all after that.

SnuggyBuggy · 15/10/2019 09:15

Also OP you maybe need to accept that you can't change the past but you can the future.