Holiday or Hell ?

[notonmybucketlist]

Warning , major first world problem !

DP and I have been saving up holiday days and money for a trip of a lifetime with DC 15. We have 4 weeks. I was envisioning warmth, sun , different culture, delicious foods, to expose our DC to something new.

We have both become increasingly aware that flying is terrible for the environment and it's hard to justify contributing to climate change just for amusement, so we want to choose something that is less heavy on carbon emissions. I was thinking overland to Morocco.

DP is now really set on going to and from Japan via the trans Siberian railway, bearing in mind this will be in winter. It sounds like an adventure but I fear in reality its 2 weeks on a train with a probably very bored teen and 4 ferry crossings on rough, winter, possibly frozen seas.

DP thinks I am negative and putting a downer on what could be an amazing adventure. He says I'm full of resistance and not open to how great it would be. AIBU in thinking days in a train travelling across frozen Russia in winter with a teenager will be an experience I could live without.

I’m not convinced that train ride is less damaging than a flight. I’d want to see some actual measurements and studies. So far, all I have seen In media is moral judgments.

Part of the problem with fighting climate change right now is that we latch on to certain ideas, like straws, that yes, are problematic, but that actually have a very trivial impact compared to other changes that could be easily made. We shouldn’t be fighting climate change by avoiding the trendy item of the month.

What do you like actually doing on holiday OP?

Are you an explorer? I'm guessing you are or you wouldn't be booking this holiday! Therefore I think sitting on a train will be hell on earth - nice for a day or two.

Trans-Manchurian, Trans-Mongolian & Trans-Siberian may off a different route back!

Top tip: an old British gas key opens the toilet, on the train, door which is useful when you’re stopped at the station.

I'm thinking I'll fly and join in later, I'd like to go have a bit of time there on my own or with DC but I'm assuming Japan is quite expensive. DP can go by train and DC can choose who she wants to go with!

I've learnt , having read all the messages, that the TSE rail trip ( in Spring and without a teen could be amazing ) In winter with probably grumpy teen will be cold, dark and difficult. I've also appreciated the idea of orient express to Istanbul , which sounds way more luxurious and shorter though I'm not sure if Turkey is a good place to go right now!

I believe, the carbon footprint of flying is more for regular travelling.
A one off once in a lifetime trip may be unnecessary but it's not the norm. I think every day living choices have a far greater impact on the environment.

Some more ideas: www.exodus.co.uk/holiday-destinations

I'm thinking I'll fly and join in later, I'd like to go have a bit of time there on my own or with DC but I'm assuming Japan is quite expensive. DP can go by train and DC can choose who she wants to go with!
I think that's a good compromise.
Wonder what your DH will make of this though.
But a holiday of a lifetime needs to be something that everyone wants to do and he needs to understand that without making negative comments like saying you're putting a "downer" on it.

I'm not convinced that overland to Morocco will have less of a negative carbon footprint than flying to Japan. It might if you take the train or coach but not if you drive.

I think both sound great but would favour driving to Morocco with a teen. Used to drive to Algeria all the time as a kid and it’s not too bad - couple of stops in Europe, lovely.

I applaud you for avoiding flying. We are doing the same!

Also driving is often similar to train if enough people in the car, to France anyway - I plugged it into some carbon calculators recently. The more people in the car, the smaller the individual footprint.

Dh an I did a bucket list train journey a few years ago. California Zephyr from Chicago to San Fran. 2 stops en route. Here are my thoughts.

1. It's a train. That has limitations, you are tied to a schedule, and any delays aren't easily made up.
2. Sleeping compartments. I was in a Fold down ironing board style bed. Just about ok for a few nights interspersed with proper beds, no way could I have done that for a week straight.
3. Meals on a train are constrained by what they have available. Won't necessarily be the cuisine de la region,

1. Train routes aren't always the most scenic way of getting from a to b.
2. Looking at snowy landscapes is only exciting for so long.

Honestly, I'd go for a European train trip instead, with lots of stop offs.

fearlessfemaletravels.com/trans-siberian-railway-trip-planning/

Watch the transsiberian railway videos by travel vloggers Kara and Nate on Youtube! The journey is amazing but the everyday reality looks hellish. They survived on instant noodles, chocolate bars and crisps for almost two weeks. I don't know how anyone's digestion can handle that. There is a restaurant carriage but the food also looked pre-packed and rehydrated.

We went to Russia earlier this year & part of the trip involved an overnight sleeper train.
If you can sleep on a 12 inch wide plank of wood, with lights on, with most of the other travellers drinking loudly all night & the toilets becoming so disgusting you don't dare use them them go for it.
One night was bad but I can look back on it & laugh. 2 weeks would be unbearable, I'd be getting off & on a plane after 3 or 4 days.

Don't do it.

What ideas does your DC have for a 4 week trip? They're going but you've not mentioned what they think.

I travelled the Trans-Sib in 2005. Took the Moscow - Mongolia - Beijing route and flew back to London from China.

Had a great time, but:

1. I was with a Russian friend for most of the trip;
2. I speak Russian;
3. I arranged stops so as not to have more than about 36 hours at a time on a train.

Broadly speaking, the places were interesting and the train wasn't. There's a lot of pine forest, a lot of steppe and relatively little by way of dramatic scenery. The Ural mountains aren't all that high, Baikal is genuinely impressive.

I went in summer and got sunburned. Don't recall sunrise / sunset being too different from northern England - it's not that far north. I'd also assume your plan would be to go to Vladivostok and fly on to Japan from there, whereas for me the Mongolia and Beijing bits were the most interesting. To be honest, I'm not 100% sure you'll find public boat crossing between Russia and Japan.

You might do better spending a similar time frame in European Russia. A week in Moscow, a week in Petersburg, maybe some time in the golden ring cities (Suzdal is impressive), possibly a cultural trip to Tolstoy's estate at Yasnaya Polyana. With a bit of planning you might get a good combination of 'olde Russia' and the contemporary life of the big cities. But, again, if you don't speak Russian, don't expect to encounter all that many English speakers.

Russia Today (RT) have done a fantastic 9 part documentary on the Trans Siberian called the Trans-Siberian Odyssey. You can read about it here...

“It's the longest train route on the planet, and for some, it's the journey of a lifetime, while for others it provides the only practical way to get to remote cities separated by hundreds of kilometres of freezing taiga. The Rossiya travels between Moscow and Vladivostok through eight time zones, connecting European Russia with the Pacific Ocean. We'll meet the men and women that work on the train and in stations along the way, as we take a ride on Russia's world-famous Trans-Siberian Railway”

It’s freely available from the RT catalogue catalog.rt.com/en/series/trans-siberian-odyssey/

If you are set on Japan, take the flight and carbon-offset. It's not ideal, but it's for a once-in-a-lifetime trip.

Alternatively, consider an interrail pass and jump on and off trains across Europe. Everyone gets to pick a "favourite" destination and you can get DS involved in the planning.

You won't find a better jumble of cultures, languages, foods and sights. The best bit is if you hate the weather in one place, it's easy to run away to the next!

I would do the overland one way .. sounds amazing

That sounds fantastic to me! I'd love to do that.

Thanks for the links about the train. Superlooper that link was really helpful with lots of practical info and it made clear that this journey needs to happen over a longer period making the most of stop overs to really appreciate Russia. It also drove home just how bloody long and boring the journey could be !

Japan isn't as expensive as you might expect. I don't know if it's because of years of zero/low inflation?
Our favourite Tokyo restaurant was a sushi place where we ordered on an iPad (no language issues) and dinner for 3 was typically about £60 (4 beers, 2 coke - not wine). This included a huge number of tuna nigiri which DS loved.
Public transport much cheaper than UK. Taxis are quite ££ but not needed generally.
Hotels varied but not shocking prices.

@Chewbecca I agree, was shocked that we came back with money!

We found a conveyor belt sushi place in Shibuya that was £1 a plate, I've never been so full.

Kyoto in comparison was ridiculously expensive.

Flying is 2% of global emissions. Just fly and offset.

BTW, if you want to read a funny (and detailed) blog about the Trans-Siberian, look up "Adventure before Dementia". It's written by an older Australian couple and the lady's writing style is really great, I enjoyed it a lot.