Holiday or Hell ?

[notonmybucketlist]

Warning , major first world problem !

DP and I have been saving up holiday days and money for a trip of a lifetime with DC 15. We have 4 weeks. I was envisioning warmth, sun , different culture, delicious foods, to expose our DC to something new.

We have both become increasingly aware that flying is terrible for the environment and it's hard to justify contributing to climate change just for amusement, so we want to choose something that is less heavy on carbon emissions. I was thinking overland to Morocco.

DP is now really set on going to and from Japan via the trans Siberian railway, bearing in mind this will be in winter. It sounds like an adventure but I fear in reality its 2 weeks on a train with a probably very bored teen and 4 ferry crossings on rough, winter, possibly frozen seas.

DP thinks I am negative and putting a downer on what could be an amazing adventure. He says I'm full of resistance and not open to how great it would be. AIBU in thinking days in a train travelling across frozen Russia in winter with a teenager will be an experience I could live without.

Winter in Russia is bloody freezing - temperatures will be at -20 or worse - and it'll be dark. A lot.

Personally I think your DH is bonkers! Why not go there in the summer if that's what he wants to do?

I have done it in summer, one way as far as Vladivostok. That was a great trip, and, depending on the teen, could be fun for all. I would not want to do it in the winter as the activity options on the stops will be very limited and it will be dark and freezing.
I would absolutely not contemplate doing it in both directions. The trip back will be hell. Plus it will take you the best past of two weeks to get to Japan so you will have virtually no time to actually enjoy the countries you visit.
Get your DH to research it. The standard compartments sleep four so it will be you three plus a (likely changing) random. There are no creature comforts. People are friendly but their English likely to be limited at best.

-25 C is nothing!

I've been skiing in -40C in Canada. I remember looking in amazement at the weather forecast which was in Fahrenheit and discovering that it's the point on the scale where it makes no difference -40C is the same as -40F

I've done overnight Chinese trains and am not sure I have the stamina for trans Siberia even though I would love, love, love to see the landscape.

But Japan...is incredible. There is so much there you could do. A vastly different culture, jaw dropping scenery, glorious food and trains that will take you anywhere. Spending lots of time getting to and from Japan but not taking the chance to really explore what Japan has to offer seems heartbreaking.

We have both become increasingly aware that flying is terrible for the environment and it's hard to justify contributing to climate change just for amusement

I have done this trip on the Trans-Mongolian but in May and spent 4 weeks getting from St Pete's through to Beijing. You absolutely would be wanting to stop off to make the most of it - I stopped in Moscow (where technically it starts), Ekaterinburg, Novosibursk, Irkutsk for Lake Baikal, Ulaanbaatur and then finally Beijing.

Not sure about PP mention of the longest leg being 5 nights with stops - you can do the whole thing in 7 nights! I wouldn't advise that though...

PP are correct, there are no signs in English in Russia unlike many other countries, not many people speak english, and you would need to not get confused with the timezones changing whilst on the train (we nearly got off a day too early).

I think it would be too ambitious to try to combine Trans-Sib with Japan (I've been to both). Suggest possibly flying to Japan and taking in another country whilst in Asia if you wanted to (although you could easily spend 4 weeks in Japan anyway).

As to the time of year - others have said it is magical in winter, personally it would be too cold for me. I camped at Lake Baikal and was absolutely freezing and there was still ice on the side of the lake.

If you wanted to go overland you could train it all the way through to say Georgia or one of the Stans, taking in many of the countries of Eastern Europe, and then fly back?

Japan is amazing and worth a month on its own, I used to live there, the trains are awesome.

Trans Siberian, I went from Hong Kong up through China, stopped in Mongolia to spend a night in a ger and stop over in Ulan Bator, stop overs in Laine baikaal and Moscow. Bloody loved it. Lots of interaction with oth passengers. There’s not a lot to look at but in a way that’s the point. The trains have adaquate toilets and aren’t freezing.

It’s an amazing trip.

Stay at home sounds horrendous

Its upsetting to be painted as someone not open to adventure.

This is a pet hate of mine, people who dismiss anyone who doesn't share their idea of fun as being boring or "unadventurous" or "boring". So irritating and smug.

Why in winter? Do you have to go in winter or can you go in spring/summer??

Like everyone else says - Trans-Siberian in winter? Hell, no.

I'd stick with your overland to Morocco plans. Sounds great. So basically, Eurostar to Paris then TGV to the south of Spain, then boat? or do you mean actually round the Med??

We holiday in Europe by train every year. Fabulous.

Or you could do interrailing round Europe...

He says I'm full of resistance and not open to how great it would be

PS your h sounds like a bit of a bully. Does he like getting his own way? What exactly does he think will be 'great' about the trip? What does he want to see? And what does your dc think?

Well, there's adventure and there's adventure, isn't there? If what you do turns out well and you all really enjoy it it'll be great - but if not it might become the holiday you only really enjoy when it's over ifswim.

No-one can tell in advance whether it'll be a nightmare or a dream. I feel that you should look at your worries with your sensible head on. What's the worst case scenario and how would you cope with it?

It's always going to be difficult or indeed impossible to please all three of you all the time. If there's no tiny element of boredom you're probably trying too hard.

Listen to your misgivings and maybe compromise. Have a nice time.

I would love to do this, but not during winter and not with a bored teenager in tow.

Put a pin in this idea and revisit it when your DC has left home. (And do it at a time when there's more daylight hours!)

My husband and I went on the St Petersburg to Moscow overnight train and that was probably enough, even though we were staying in the 1st Class cabins.

The station in St Petersburg is beautiful and the placing of the twin beds in the cabins made for some interesting antics .

I'd love to do the Transsiberian railway one-way and in summer, but return, in winter? That sounds cold, dark, boring and miserable. I suggest you both go back to the drawing board. Do you have to do this trip in winter?

Dear God sounds awful

Althoughperhaps you could enjoy a happy excursion down the Salt mines😩

I'm so glad I don't have to do this trip 😂 in the midst of winter. Teenager in tow.

If my parents did this with me when I was a teenager I would have hated it

I travelled from Canada to America by train once. Big adventure. Only 8 hours. Longest 8 hours of my life though despite comfy seats and WiFi. I wouldn’t do it.

If you wanted to go overland you could train it all the way through to say Georgia or one of the Stans, taking in many of the countries of Eastern Europe, and then fly back?

I was also coming on to suggest Georgia or Uzbekistan - they're like nothing else on earth really.

Otherwise there has to be some compromise to be struck this isn't bloody Brexit. Different time of year? Same time of year but different destination? Two trips, one with DS and one without, two weeks each? Flights to Japan, train part-way back / to the other end of Japan?

I'd love something like that ... in summer!

Just cut out all animal products and that will give you extra environmental wiggle room. Animal agriculture is more damaging to the environment than the entire transport system combined!

FFS! Go and fly!

Lol, the train does have heating you know! Russians love heating in winter - the temperature difference between outside and inside is like 50 degrees.

I actually love Russian winters, it's snowy and pretty. You can't stay outdoors for too long though, so we did a lot of museum visits.