Holiday or Hell ?

[notonmybucketlist]

Warning , major first world problem !

DP and I have been saving up holiday days and money for a trip of a lifetime with DC 15. We have 4 weeks. I was envisioning warmth, sun , different culture, delicious foods, to expose our DC to something new.

We have both become increasingly aware that flying is terrible for the environment and it's hard to justify contributing to climate change just for amusement, so we want to choose something that is less heavy on carbon emissions. I was thinking overland to Morocco.

DP is now really set on going to and from Japan via the trans Siberian railway, bearing in mind this will be in winter. It sounds like an adventure but I fear in reality its 2 weeks on a train with a probably very bored teen and 4 ferry crossings on rough, winter, possibly frozen seas.

DP thinks I am negative and putting a downer on what could be an amazing adventure. He says I'm full of resistance and not open to how great it would be. AIBU in thinking days in a train travelling across frozen Russia in winter with a teenager will be an experience I could live without.

PS: We now have a campervan and my children, eldest is 15, do enjoy our road trips. His ideal trip would be football stadiums, we have many pictures of obscure football stadiums from the outside.

Sorry, DC.

BTW:
Teenagers love adventure
I suppose my 14 year old DS isn't a teenager, then.

I heard a friend describe the Transiberian trip as a real disappointment: 'After the first few days, the trees interspersed with little Russian villages all looked the same'. Add to that it will be winter and in darkness most of the time and I think it'll be hell.

Why not get the ferry across to Europe and drive down through France, over the Alps into Italy and over to Eastern Europe? Not sure how much less environmental damage that will do.

You could get a Euro rail ticket (it lasts for a month) and travel through France and Spain, get the ferry over to Morocco and then go to Casablanca and Marrakesh, all with the same ticket. Then take a different route back, stopping at Granada and Seville etc. I did this trip years ago and it was fantastic.

Were you going to charter a private plane for your sun holiday? Because if not, it’ll still go if you aren’t on it. And there’ll still be a new poser station in China every week. Don’t spoil your trip of a lifetime out of guilt, the difference you can make isn’t worth it.

It sounds awful! we travelled around Vietnam this summer by train and believe me, I was ready to smother my DCs after just one night in a train cabin with them. It will be cramped, shit beds, blocked toilets, no shower and boring as hell. Don't do it.

Your husbands trip sounds amazing to me. My 15 year old would love that.

A friend has done this trip, he set off a spritely backpacker, he ended it a rather dishevelled mess. You need a lot of mental stamina to do that trip!

Are you well travelled in Europe? There's so much to see and experience that most of us barely touch. The same with Morocco, step away from the cities and it's a different world.

I'd look at suggested routes for interrailing, ending up in Morocco after Spain.

I really love the idea and I figure if that train wasn't heated, no one would survive it travelling through a russian winter...but I can see if you're a beach-lazing sort of person you'd hate it and I think you should stick to your guns because you've put a lot into it. It's quite likely NOT a teen's idea of fun, however as a teen I would've still liked it too, so it depends on your teen!

I would love to do this. I am planning a possible trans-siberian trip in a couple of years time.
Can you not compromise and go in summer? There's so much to see along the way and I think it might be more pleasant when it's not bloody freezing.
I wouldn't fancy just sitting in the train from Moscow to Vladivostok or Beijing for 6 or 7 days solid. There are so many amazing places along the way to get out for a couple of days and so many different cultures to experience. If you've got 4 weeks you could see a lot.

What's your 15 year old like? Are they interested in different cultures and sight-seeing? Because if they aren't then it could be hell for them and you.

Your husband will need his Russian. I have some basic Russian and really needed it on trips to Moscow and St. Petersburg as English isn't used that widely even in some of the more touristy places.

How does he propose getting back? Surely he isn't planning to go all that way overland and back again? That's unrealistic. You'd need to fly back which defeats the object of not flying.
I know you say it is hard to justify not flying just for "amusement" but I think if you aren't flying regularly it could be justified...... one of the major problems of flying is business people flying all over Europe for work two or three times a week for "meetings" (which could be done on skype). There's an awful lot of this goes on. Eg. people flying from Salzburg to Vienna (and other similar routes) when they could get a train which wouldn't take that much longer taking into account check in times etc.

Someone was asking if you'd meet locals on the trans-siberian route. If you go on one of the normal trains then yes and locals do use it a lot. You'd have to think about whether you wanted to go 1st, 2nd or 3rd class. I like the appeal of 3rd class - being in a big open carriage with everyone else.
You can also book with some companies who put on their own trains. I know someone who did this and she was quite disappointed because there were only Germans on the train (she's German and booked with a German company), the food on the train was designed for German tastes - menus etc in German, excursions with Germans and a German tour guide. You get the picture! She did see a lot but felt she missed out on the cultural experience she would have had going on one of the regular trains.

Is your husband good at planning holidays and researching because there's a lot involved! There's all the visas for one thing.

Lots to think about. I'd love to do it but you and your DC would really have to be onboard otherwise it'll be miserable.

There is a reason they sent all the dissidents to Siberia in the winter
In my experience teens like variety, company of other teens and things to see and do. Scenery is appreciated but not for hours and hours at a stretch.
You can still have an exciting enjoyable adventure that all three of you want.. It could be as great as some posters have said, but they've also said winter is very limiting. Imagine going on a trip with two people thinking the third has organised a grim trip.
@HumphreyCobblers said
"For a once in a lifetime trip you both have to want to do it" It sounds like a bit of compromise is in order, but its also a wonderful opportunity and I hope you find the perfect plan and enjoy it. Best of luck

Your dh is deluded and this is a new entry on my list of holidays never to take. Team hell all the way

Do it!! We did it (admittedly not in the winter) and it was lovely. Bring plenty to read, DO NOT ASSUME that there will be a supermarket open on your way to the train station in Moscow - get your supplies the day before, and have an amazing time.

Honestly - it's fantastic.

The loos on Russian trains are nightmarish. And imagine being unable to get any proper exercise for that length of time.
Actually, I’d still like to do it, but not in winter.

We were looking at this recently but it would take a LOT of convincing for me to do it. Check out this site, it has a lot of info

www.seat61.com/Trans-Siberian.htm#plan

That will be grim as hell. Don't do it.

Not in winter! What about a boat to American and then the zephyr if the train is part of the appeal?

Oh oh oh - plan it RIGOROUSLY. When we did it there was this thing where the train booking opens a fixed number of days before departure and you HAVE TO BOOK THAT SECOND because if you don't you'll end up in 3rd class. Think this through properly, and treat it like getting tickets for Glastonbury.

What we did in the end was fly to Riga in Latvia and then take the train to St Petersburg, take the VERY romantic overnight train from St Petersburg to Moscow, 2 or 3 nights in Moscow, then the got the train - ohhh - no wait, we got the Trans Mongolian Express, on reflection. Same general idea though. 6 days.

If you're vegetarian, bring food or do your research on forums about it.

I'd compromise. Fly one way and do overland one way.

That's much fairer than a flat ' no '.

It doesnt matter what we think. We could be train loving introverts who love the idea of sitting on a train in the dark reading a book for two weeks!

It matters what you and your son think. I think he is old enough to, if not have a vote, then have his opinion listened to at least.

Everyone likes different things and I think your husband is being unreasonable to not understand this - just because it isn't your cup of tea doesnt mean you're being negative, it means you're being honest! Being negative is finding the worst in every suggestion and not coming up with anything positive of your own. There must be holidays he wouldn't like and that doesnt mean he is negative just human.

If it's the trip of a lifetime everyone should be happy with it and looking forward to it.

Could you cruise to somewhere eg NY, have a road trip and then fly back so you're only flying one way?

Oh just get on the plane. You've done the worst thing you can possibly do for the environment already by adding another human to the population so a flight is a drop in the ocean.
Just don't have anymore kids and your Conscience is clear.

I have been distracted from my studies and am now researching the kids next travel wish which is overland to Africa.

DH could go on his own if he wanted to do that, it's my idea of hell summer or winter. If I'm going somewhere I like to get there as quickly as possible.

I have hardcore traveller friends who have done this (not in the winter). Even they decided that it was best summed up as an experience and not one they would particularly recommend.

Dammit. I owe dp and apology. I have been convincing him this is the best idea for our honeymoon. I couldn’t believe the rest of the world didn’t agree.