To ask how the hell to cope with dd9

[SevenOhFour]

Dd9 has always been a lovely girl. So lovely. Would do anything for anyone. So kind and gentle. Have had an inkling she may be asd from younger (sensory and routine issues etc) but as she had no issues with relationships or school was told no reason to assess.

Fast forward to about age 6 or 7, violent outbursts started. Usually when something was unexpected (wrong socks or no time to go to shop we had planned etc) anyway we are hopefully on the waiting list to diagnose asd. Although I'm not confident we will get a diagnosis as she is perfect at school.
She is so big though now, she's on age 12 to 13 clothes, she can really cause damage. Her and her brother were shoving each others paper of the table this evening. I told them both to stop, he did, she didn't, I told her to stop again or she would have to go to bed. She continues and also threw his pens all over the floor. I told her to go to bed and she went mad saying I'm not allowing her to do her homework. I told her no she's not doing her homework now she just needs to go to bed.

She started hitting me and throwing her brothers work. Snatched me phone and hid it. My 3yo and 7yo sons are scared at this point. I try to give her space but she's following me round the house attacking me.

I told her to go to her room and she started throwing things down the stairs, full 1ltr bottles of water, her sisters belongings and school books, threw her sisters new phone charger (as in, amazon delivered it 3 hours ago) and the rabbit has chewed it up.

She's punches kicked and stole my glasses, I've restrained her as much as possible and told her she has no tablet for the rest of the week. She doesn't give a shit, she doesn't care, I don't even know how to deal with her, she's big and strong. She is 9 for fuck sake I should be able to deal with this. I've had enough I just don't know what to do

It sounds like she gets overloaded and has a ferocious temper.

Does she have any issues at school?

She's so nasty and it's so not like her which makes it ten times worse. She's never a bit naughty. She's the most lovely child ever 90% of the time but when she goes she goes. She's calmed down slightly but she keeps coming and saying you want me to die don't you, what do you wish I would die?

I love her and I need to do my best for her but I also need to keep my other children safe, both mentally and physically

Absolutely no issues. She's the perfect student. She's normally perfect at home too, she's so patient and even if you tell her not to do something or ask her to so a chore she will happily comply. She just ask of a sudden snaps and I could manage it but the last few times she's been so much stronger and literally is beating me up and throwing things and destroying her siblings things

I'd honestly consider speaking to your GP about visiting a child psychologist.

I think I need to. I need to do something. I can deal with badly behaved kids. But this is something else. It's heartbreaking and I hate seeing my other children scared

It's so so horrible because most of the time she is a really sweet girl

OP, this is my lovely dd9. We have a referral for camhs (they finally contacted me after 6 months and said it's a 2 yr waiting list). So we are trying other routes suggested by them.

Anyway. She has calmed down. I believe she is autistic with extreme anxiety. She also has shutdowns.
Anyway. Her outbursts at home have v much stopped, or she can now bring herself out of it fairly quickly. (I've spent over 4 hours once been beaten, restraining her from trying to climb out of upstairs window, etc. I still have a torn something or other in my shoulder).

She now has shown school and outside clubs her 'symptoms' (not anywhere near as bad). But I feel because she's not bottling it all up, she is better at home.

She is usually wonderful. So caring. But she can flip.

for you tonight

Her 6 yr old sister loves her to bits but is definitely scared of her .

It's taken me 2 years of going back and forth as to whether to seek help. The GP was dismissive the first time. Thankfully school listened and despite not agreeing with me, put through a referral (they now can see it!). GP also has seen it as she had a meltdown in there.

I'm so so sorry. I know how you're feeling tonight. I hope it's a one off, but if not, don't hide it for as long as I did

Thank you. It's just awful, she's s such a sweet girl and to see her like this, it's like she's possessed. It's bloody horrible. Even being nasty to her 3yo brother who worships her. Trying to snatch the glasses off my face. She smashed my phone last month and broke my glasses, this time she stole my phone shut herself in her room and messaged her dad saying it was just a joke (my text to him asking if he could get out of work early as she was playing up)

It's gruelling isn't it .
I have an 11yr old like this. Yesterday I was "only" punched and whipped in the face. I've spent years asking for help and still not got proper support. It's unbelievable what they allow to continue as long as it's only affecting the family .

I feel like a terrible parent. I don't 'allow' her to beat me up but short of hitting her back what am I supposed to do. She's so strong! And I'm not too soft on them. My others aren't like this, yes they have their (frequent) moments. But this is something else

It's not about being soft! Or hard for that matter. If she is autistic, you'll need to parent her differently to the others. Take it from a fellow parent of a child with autism.

Meltdown prevention comes from pre planning, structure and sensory support. During a meltdown - don't engage in any way. Never ever ever give sanctions / threats / demands as it's like petrol on a fire. She isn't behaving that way through choice, it's a visceral need from a flight or fight response. She feels worse for sanctions for something she can't control. Would you punish a child for not walking if they didn't have a leg? That's how unjust it will feel to her. Sensory space after (dark tents, weighted blankets, sensory tools and lights etc).

You haven't done anything wrong and it's really tough.

I know, it's just so hard. Most of the time I pre empt it but I feel like I'm walking on eggshells as it is. But she was being horrible to her brother I don't know how to be fair without causing her to go crazy. What is fine 99%of the time will set her off 1%of the time.

I try to give her space which used to work but now she follows me round the house attacking me and throwing and destroying things

teatime that's helped a lot. Thank you

We have had over a week of no melt or shutdowns. It's easy to forget and make out it's ok.

Her dad and I are divorced and he v much over reacts. He has finally started to accept the reality.
God, I love her so much. I just want her to be happy.

OP. Speak to the school. Speak to your GP. You will probably be ignored the first few times.

Look up PDA. I'm not for one minute suggesting your daughter has it just that you might find some of the behaviour strategies helpful.

Sounds like one of my dc (16 now) still awaiting asd diagnosis but improved from about 13 when we saw a psychologist (about something else) she gave some great advice - needed to allow dc to express emotions non verbally (art therapy can help) also using cartoon strips and pictures of emotions, discuss with other children what's happening its not naughty behaviour just dc doesn't know how else to express self, my dc used to be an angel at school but what was actually happening was all the stress and emotion came out once home from the day in anger, so we implemented on advice a strict timetable at home of what to do broken down into 15min blocks (eg get up, make bed, have shower get dressed etc) it was amazing the transformation for everyone and dc has never hit me since. We also looked at what might overstimulate, what distressed dc, and removed as much of that as possible but slowly reintroduced somethings to find what could be tolerated eg at first no questions after school about how day had gone but now know dc can tolerate a few questions without to much distress. Also dc now knows if we feel that dcs behaviour is effecting others that dc needs to go to bedroom and play on xbox to calm down. It's trial and error but has been worth the effort. Can you speak to senco at school see if they have any advice? Our senco has been brilliant and even though we haven't got a diagnosis yet dc is treat as on the spectrum at school this has reduced the stress in the day dc bottles up and this has had a good effect on home life too. Your not a bad parent your doing your best in unknown waters.

If it was just me I'd feel better but the poor other kids are terrified when she kicks off. My nonchalant 'moody' pre teen who is usually too cool for emotions, cries and tells her to leave me alone, she hugs me and is obviously worried. My 7yo who usually is at war with my 3yo takes him under his wing and plays with him to distract him. My 3yo is learning that hitting and throwing things is how you cope with being angry and when he's bad he screams he hates us, he's just copying his sister.

I go easy on her when I can and I do try to make life easier but I can't just let her be horrible to her siblings. And I really think they're not going to refer us for asd assessment because schools report was basically, she's the perfect child

Thank you that's helpful, I'm taking all your advice on board everyone and will speak to as many people as I can to get help. It's stupid because I feel like overreacting because between episodes she's wonderful and I think I down play it in my head. But she's going to seriously hurt one of us soon, or herself.

Look at www.autism.org.uk/about/strategies.aspx and also www.autism.org.uk/about/behaviour.aspx

To me it sounds like high functioning ASD with severe anxiety.

Witches I reported your post. No idea if it breaches guidelines but it should. FFS.

OP, I was just going to say look at strategies for PDA, and that your DD sounds like the absolutely classic high-functioning hold-it-together-at-school-meltdown-at home.

You sound lovely, OP. Have you tried asking her what would help, when she’s calm again? To try to get some insight?

Try to get video footage of this sort of behaviour the next time it happens - this will be useful to show to staff at school and to CAMHS.

It's probably worth trying your GP to see if she can be seen by CAMHS sooner (though unlikely to be much sooner)

If you are really struggling with her, and she's posing a risk to her siblings, herself and/or you, it's OK to call the police - they're trained to restrain people safely. This has the potential to be traumatic for her, but if her behaviour is very risky, it may be the less bad option.

From the point of view of helping her siblings at school, it's worth asking the school(s) to record her siblings as Young Carers [and definitely worth telling the younger children's school about her behaviour at home, before it comes out in conversation]

Depending on how dangerous her behaviour is and the level of risk she poses to her siblings, you may be able to compel social services to provide you and any other adults in the household with training in how to safely restrain her. [Be careful with this though, as if she poses a very high level of risk to the others, it may end up being necessary for them to not live with her - which can be achieved in various ways]

This is also worth discussing with your GP.

Reading about PDA is a good idea - that she's gone after your glasses and phone is perhaps more thought through than some "standard" ASD anxiety driven behaviour.

She needs an EHC Needs Assessment with a view to an EHC Plan. With behaviour like this she will not manage in a mainstream secondary school without a lot of additional support (if she'll manage in a mainstream secondary school at all).