We should be kind on Christmas Day?

[marmitedreams]

I have seen many threads in the last couple of weeks with people asking if they are being unreasonable for wanting to exclude relatives and in-laws on Christmas Day. Surely Christmas Day is a time for peace to all and love to all. A lot of people seem to be selfishly worrying that they will not have a great day. We should all be thinking how we can help others have a great day.

Unless there is a backstory of horrible abuse, why not use Christmas Day as an opportunity to be kind.

Those saying “well my husband always pitches in”. Well, good for you. We’re discussing the fact that, often when a woman posts a thread upset about the horrible in laws coming for Christmas, it’s because she is often doing all of the prep work and cooking for Christmas, while her “D”H sits doing fuck all, or does ONE thing and pats himself on the back thinking he’s contributed.

Yes, it shouldn’t happen, but sitting there going “well I know instances where it doesn’t happen” doesn’t change the fact that it often DOES.

Sitting around saying “NAMALT” doesn’t help get to the root of the issue, which is a deep seated problem in our society about the expectations of women and the division of roles in the household; and the associated expectations to “be kind” AKA “everyone else’s wants trump yours”.

Oh, the ol' kindness card, shaming women into putting up with shit behaviour from others for centuries! YABU. Christmas is just another day.

@Dyrne actually OP started a thread about kindness in general.

But if you want to chat about that. Having grain purina family of women, I wound suggest that woman carry some of the blame.

We all used to go my nana and grandad all the men were ordered out of ten house to the pub Christmas morning whole the woman cooked and moaned about how they had gone to the pub. One uncle hated the pub and wanted to stay and help every year. He was kicked out and then moaned about.

Society is to blame for the general attitudes. But on an individual level I woidlnt live with a man that thought anything was just my job. Men are brought up with a sense of entitlement and some of them need to grow the fuck up. And some women also need to push back.

But yeah, in this house I dont have hope dp will show me some kindness at christmas and do his fair share. Because he does it all year round and he wouldnt have moved in if he didnt.

These threads make me so sad. Was that your intention OP?

Of course people should be kind. It's the thing I value most in life. Sometimes you have to be kind to yourself.

My background wasn't 'horribly abusive'. But funnily enough I work really hard and I want to spend time with my precious family at Christmas ... not other people who want to be bastards and blame me for having a problem with it.

I'm with you OP. My DM hated hosting my DFs family for many years and was a martyr so I offer to host everyone as I do feel it's the right thing to do but refuse to buy in to set timings and trying to fulfil everyone's expectations.
All are welcome to join us and no one's excluded, even the difficult ones, but we have board games in one room and the tv in the other or people can go for a walk and those are the options.
It's usually quite fun and even though not everyone mucks in they still come back so are presumably aren't having a dreadful time!

I agree with you OP. Christmas should be a time for being kind. But being kind works in both directions. And the onus is just as much on the invitee as the inviter. Being with someone at Christmas who makes your life miserable, who is selfish, mean and controlling and who isn't going to change their behaviour just because it's Christmas Day, isn't 'being kind'. It's, as PPs have said, being a doormat.

What's that phrase? 'You reap what you sow.'

@UnderhandedBarbieDoll

Every time I hear about kindness lately it seems to be used as a synonym for "being a doormat"/treated like shit.

Funnily enough it's always said to girls and women. Why is that?

Yep this. ^ Unfortunately this is largely true. Of course it's good to be nice and kind, rather than a nasty, aggressive arsehole, but it works both ways, and I have no intention of being 'nice' and 'kind' to people who are arseholes for 52 weeks of the year, and just decide to be 'nice' at Christmas.

Also, even though several people are saying 'stop picking on da menz! MY man luvs prepping for Crimbo dinner, peeling tatos and sprouts and helping with the chores on Christmas day,' along with comments like 'they just lurrrrve doing all the washing up afterwards, and their fave bit of Crimbo is doing all the food shopping, and searching for gifts for our families. His AND mine!'

In MOST cases, it will be the WOMEN doing virtually everything. Why deny it when it's true???

Personally, I have done my fair share of 'doing Christmas' and doing everything (for about a quarter century,) because DH's job was always sooooooo much more stressful than mine!!! So now, we go out for a meal with family 3 or 4 days before Christmas day, and I do FUCK-ALL on Christmas day. FUCK ALL! (Not for the last 4 or 5 years!) Nor do I have anyone around, or visit anyone! As I said, we do it 3-4 days before...

I tell DH if he wants a big meal on Christmas day, he can do it himself.

Oddly, he has been fine with not having it on Christmas day - he is happy to just get snacks and cheese on toast, and not have any family around. I have done all the entertaining and visiting and hosting for a quarter century, and I did 95% of everything. Not any more.

I guess some may say it's my own fault, and they may be right. Doesn't change the fact that many women are expected to do it all, and most do. On the few occasions that men DO do more, people shower them with praise for HELPING their wife.

I am sick to death of men being praised and treated like they are doing something amazing, when they are simply doing what women do all the time!

I am also sick and tired of this attitude that WOMEN should be 'kind' purely because they are women!

My MIL used to have her critical, emotionally unavailable mother for the whole of Christmas every year and drive 5 hrs each way to get her. She found it difficult, but her sister and nephew died of cancer so technically it was her responsibility to make sure an elderly woman with dementia didn't spend Christmas alone. It was really selfless of her and I don't think she was a doormat at all. She also invites anyone local without family to our Christmas lunch, because that is precisely the purpose of Christmas. We have had some wonderful, amazing older people there because she was gracious enough to think of them. I even named my DD2 after one!

Hesafriendfromwork the OP wasn’t really talking about kindness in general, though, it was specifically aimed at posters who had started recent threads about having people to stay; these posters are invariably women; hence the discussion about “women’s work”.

And then to go on to say that some women bring it upon themselves... well, I despair.

@DisgruntledGuineaPig last year sounds lovely. Why not do the same again? If you feel too guilty could you tell your PIL they’re (begrudgingly) welcome to come for the morning/dinner/the day, but that you’re having a very relaxed day and the kids might stay in their OH’s and you might have casual food, not a full Christmas dinner etc.

Then the ball is in their court. I know it’s less than perfect, but it might be better than forcing yourself to do the full on drama!

If you make it sound completely lazy & untraditional they might choose to stay home ((bit of luck!).

I meant (in the first paragraph) I have no intention of being 'nice' and 'kind' to people who are arseholes for 51 weeks of the year, and just decide to be 'nice' at Christmas.

@Fiacla

Christmas 'kindness' involves bucketloads of gendered work.

This is perfection.

Why the hell would you invite people you don't get on with the other 364 days a year do they can spoil your Xmas?

Usually people are not welcome for a reason you don't get to tell people they have to suck up nasty abusive p.a. behaviour from people just to prove how 'kind you are one day a year!
You need to put you and your family first at times, especially on family days like Xmas. Far too many threads on here by posters (usually women) dreading Xmas because they are being forced to gad about from one place to another to keep other people happy while running themselves ragged and putting up with crap from said relatives.

Why is it only the people hosting who have to be kind and suck up the crap? Why can't the people they don't want to see be kind the rest of the year? Maybe then people would actually want to see them?

Amen

While we should all - no doubt - be kind all the time there must be those whose "relatives" strain things.

I recall a [male] friend whose DM objected to his getting married and hated his wife. The final straw was [apparently] when he sent a Christmas card signed by him on both their behalfs. "She should have signed it". They broke contact.

Surely life's too short?

@marmitedreams

@simkin @OkayGo @Velveteenfruitbowl

Thank you, work has been very slow today

This thread has kicked off!
OP I understand what your saying. When my auntie died years ago, I made sure my uncle had somewhere to go (he was going to be with his son, but you never know!)
I lost my dad last year and had to move to be alone as mum had to go to a nursing home as requires 24hr care.
I have a huge family, only my sister invited me and I had a lovely day at hers. Although reading the comments I know having a single person who has lost everything is obviously not ideal, so am dreading Christmas this year as I genuinely don't want to impose on everyone else who has a family.
I have my mum, but that's difficult in itself because she is so unwell. And waking up/going home to an empty house on Xmas day I'm still massively struggling with and I'm not sure where my head is with that.
I don't think my family hate me like PPs have said, but quite rightly want to put their own family first. It's just a really lonely time and I'm only early 30s. But I wouldn't expect someone to invite me out of "duty" as that would make me feel even worse knowing they actually didn't want me there!
It's a difficult situation but we all cope somehow. There's plenty for me to do, e.g. Visit mum, volunteer, go to gym etc, but that absolute bone crippling loneliness is hard to understand unless you've been there

PinkBuffalo I’m sorry to hear you’re having a tough time. I think there certainly is a difference between “try to think of those that are alone this Christmas” and “you must invite your bitter MIL even though she will criticise everything”. If you have a single relative that comes along, pitches in with helping out, entertaining the kids, fetching plates etc, then you’re not going to start a thread on MN moaning about it, so you won’t see it on MN; but please rest assured that many guests are absolutely welcome on Christmas Day!!!

I know a lot of places that need volunteers on Christmas Day are open for volunteers around now - do you think you’d want to investigate that or would you prefer not to?

In general, are there groups of friends you see and spend time with?

Thankyou dyrne and of course your absolutely right! My brain runs away with me sometimes with what I read on here
I already volunteer at my local community centre up the road and have made lots of friends there so I'm sure they'll, have something for me to do. And my amazing gym have primed there'll be something on early xmas morning , so again, all my gym friends will be there and sounds silly but gives me a reason to get up and go on Xmas day!
Will see how mum is as if I can also spend the day with her if having a good day, that'll be nice

Sanctimonious ‘just be kind’ posters are a pain in the arse.

You’re not giving any context about the threads, where the OP has valid reasons for not wanting someone to stay overnight or not wanting their PIL to stay with them every other year whilst their own parents stay every third year.

PinkBuffalo That’s great! It’s completely valid to want to spend Christmas with friends over your family if you want - it’s all about community and getting together with those you love!

@PinkBuffalo

I’m so sorry to hear about your Dad🌷and obviously the impact that has had on your & your mums living arrangements too. I’ve git a friend going through similar and it’s incredibly difficult I lost my Dad a few years ago (and I miss him a lot) but at the time my mum was able to stay in the family home, though we had to deal with her selling that and downsizing last year. I can’t jmagjne what you went through dealing with all that at once x

You’re definitely not the sort of person who these threads are about 🌷

I do understand what you mean about being lonely though, you can feel lonely in a room full of people.

I’m sure your ‘big family’ have just been thoughtless rather than not wanted you there. Big families are great, but it’s easy to fall between the cracks if you don’t wave your arms about much!! (I don’t ‘do’ Facebook - which they all know, but don’t think about when arranging stuff!).

I spent a few Christmases on my own (working away) and actually I really enjoyed it. No hassle & no pressure. But I can be a happy hermit given the opportunity 🤣and I know others really hate it.

I really hope you have a lovely Christmas 🎄

Because not everybody is kind, and if you become the person who does what others say all the time, you become the mug.

Surely Christmas Day is a time for peace to all and love to all. A lot of people seem to be selfishly worrying that they will not have a great day. We should all be thinking how we can help others have a great day.

YABU. One’s own happiness is important, and a lot of people spend all year putting their own needs last. Christmas Day isn’t any specific thing to everyone, it’s what you make it. For some it is a time for charity and family, for others it’s just another day, for others it’s a day to really relax and enjoy what makes them happy.

I certainly don’t think it’s fair to expect everyone to subsume their own needs and desires to please others just because it’s an arbitrary day on the calendar. And frankly you have no idea what the backstory is why someone doesn’t want a particular person around.

Christmas is whatever you want it to be.

In my world, this year it means doing whatever the fuck I want to do after many years dancing to the beat of everyone else's drum. So I just refuse to have a miserable time this year.

Also, I'm not sure just how kind you really are if you just do it for Xmas. That's obligation really, not kindness.