To think its mens fault that women are "less up for it"

[MoanerLeaser]

NC.

So I've just had a bloody awful nights sleep and need to rant. I was woken up 3 times in the night by DP pawing me. Dont worry, not in a scary horrible way, just in a 'I want sex' way.

Over the years; with various men and through listening to my girlfriends and stories of them with men; I'm starting to realise or at least think that this whole "Haha, women want sex less than men and it's so frustrating for the men" trope is actually mens own doing.
Collated examples of how men make it so women actually can no longer be arsed:

• Being bad tempered for a stint and then just expecting you to suddenly forget that in bed
• Nothing particularly inspiring or exciting happening in day to day life: how about getting up the motivation to actually go out, see each other in a different context, to get the juices flowing? How about trying to seduce me?
• No real tenderness: How about a massage? How about physical warmth and touch that doesn't necessarily have to lead to sex?
• Not making a woman feel special. How about some flowers? How about a well placed compliment?
• Low energy: Quite a few men are actually just lazy in bed. What's in it for me, if it's just about you lying there?
• Lack of ideas: The above don't necessarily all apply to my own relationship but this one does: after a year or two of instigating role play, dressing up etc, it's like... So are you going to titillate me in any way then?

Sorry for the rant! I just think when you see comics or whatever laughing about "her not being up for it", maybe it's like- because you're not feeling me with desire. It's not women who are somehow low sex drive. I think women's sex drives are maybe more complex.

@MoanerLeaser not the point i
Of the thread but just wanted to reassure you in saying I dont think it's scary or weird what your partner does. If mine isn't in the mood, we just roll to our own sides and sleep. If he is, that's when he starts by cuddling/spooning but like yours there is very slightly the whole pressing his body into mine and his hands will usually start some tentative wandering to see how I respond. Though if I say I'm tired he backs off pretty quickly. But typically his hands know where to wander (after years together he knows what works!) and so I end up responding and so course he continues with this approach lol!

Ugh. THREE times? In the middle of the night?

If you need a phrase to tell him to stop, try “Fuck off, I’m asleep. Do not wake me up again. Go and have a wank if you need to.”

Then discuss it more calmly in the morning.

I would be absolutely fucking raging if my DH was repeatedly grinding against me and playing with my breasts when I was asleep in the middle of the night.

I've never understood this concept that it's a man's responsibility to get women in the mood for sex. This plays into the idea that women are the gatekeepers of sex and it's something we 'give' to men

Agreed. I thought this thread was going to be about the need for men to step up more re allocation of household chores, looking after the kids, etc.

What OP describes her partner as doing is unacceptable and he needs to be put straight.

YANBU on the being mauled while sleeping. My DH has never done this nor has any bf I’ve had either.

But, YABU on the list of things and thinking it’s mens fault if women are not in the mood for sex. To me that takes away my sex drive from me and puts it in the hands of men. That if they push the right buttons of say/do something romantic, then I’ll get all wet and ready. Which not only denies me as a woman my own sex drive, but also sets up this idea that a man can earn sex or have a justified expectation for sex if he does x,y, and z. To me, I decide if I am in the mood and him doing x,y and z is nice but not relevant.
Having young kids is exhausting...that phase of life massively affects your sex life and that is both our fault (men and women) for deciding to have kids. So it’s not mens fault or women’s fault that good sex becomes less available. It just is. The challenge is to work around that.

You could be me op. It's tiresome.

The thing that has always amazed me is that a lot of men seem to have no concept of the correlation of how they treat you in general and your sex drive. My XH was violent. Why he thought that dragging me around the house by my hair was a substitute for foreplay I shall never know. . He was aggrieved that I found his touch repulsive.

Yanbu and if DP had woken me up 3x he’d have been told to F off!

I’m older now, and I realize how much crap sex I’ve put up with honestly in the past - for the reasons you have said - just been expected to be constantly up for it, in the way the man wanted, and feeling like I was unsexy if not. Such a lot of bullshit. I slowly realized that I’m a very sexual person, and am pretty good actually! I imagine most of us are, if we allow ourselves to stand our ground on what works for us too sexually. And yet I’ve been accused by a previous boyfriend of

• not giving him enough BJs
• not being up for it enough (like after an argument, no thanks)
• being a lesbian because I obviously wasn’t that interested in men.

I’ve spent years of my life thinking that I was rubbish sexually. Or feeling inadequate because I didn’t give enough BJs or didn’t like anal, or didn’t want to do it in the kitchen when I knew visitors were due to knock at the door any minute.

There is a secret world of sex where crap stuff happens, and we feel as women that unless we conform to the man’s idea of what is sexy, then we are not sexy.

And these were not horrible men. They were nice men who genuinely could not see that sex was meant to be a meeting of two people’s desires and needs, and not just theirs. There is something deeply wrong here.

However, on the other side, it was a combination of my own actions which boosted my self esteem around sex, and also some really sexy lovely men who totally got that to have a lot of sex with women they had to make her feel that she wanted it too, genuinely wanted it, which included treating her like a human being, being kind, being a decent person, and allowing her to say no or not do anything in bed she didn’t want to. Being with those types of men really opened my eyes too. And I tell you they got much more sex with me than the others so it’s a win / win!

I think hes maybe cooked for me twice in two years.

Not really related to your thread but I'd kill for a once a year average of having a meal made for me

Other than that, i think you're right about women's sex drive being generally more complicated than men's. With a blokes sex drive the actually having sex is the main driver. With some women it seems to be made up of more complicated, seemingly to a bloke, non sex related things, like how many times you've been cooked dinner in 2 years.

Another thing, with regards to the role playing and non reciprocated effort. He sounds fucking lazy, you don't like your sex life so I'm not surprised if you're not really interested

Can’t blame a guy for trying the first time I guess, but to wake you up two more times after you already said no? That is beyond inappropriate and downright abusive IMO. Does he have trouble taking no for an answer in other aspects of his life?

Unpopular opinion but no, I don't think it's men's fault exactly. Not that a man doing the crap you described is right, or acceptable. But honestly a man could stay up all night, nothing romantic happening, and his wife be a smelly bad tempered starfish in bed and he'd still want sex. Well many men would.

I had an ex who would have wanted sex even if he was midway through getting eaten by a bear. He could have been on fire, and if offered sex, he would have had the sex before putting the fire out.

Its popular to say that men and women have exactly the same sex drives, and any perceived differences are societal, but that isn't true in my opinion.

I'm sorry OP but just to answer your question, being woken up for sex is not ok, if you have said no.

My ex ended up being a 2am er

I didn't mind it once in awhile but it ended up being the only time is he'd stay up and come to bed after 1am and boner in the back and tweaking my nips like that were radio dials. It was dreadful.

It isn't so much about taking a woman's sex drive and giving it to men but, more than a woman with a healthy normal sex drive is going to be turned off by certain things. For example if I'm exhausted and worked all day while DH had the day off and I come home to a wrecked house, I'm not going to be in the mood for sex.

A lazy grope and boner in the back for foreplay isn't going to turn me on no matter how much I fancy him in general.

"Can’t blame a guy for trying the first time I guess,"

Well I think that if someone is obviously asleep next to you then yes you can.

Totally agree.

My husband is always helping me (going beyond pulling his weight with baby/house), complimenting me, being affectionate and romantic and thoughtful... and that’s probably a large part of the reason why we have sex most nights, even with a baby in the house.

had an ex who would have wanted sex even if he was midway through getting eaten by a bear. He could have been on fire, and if offered sex, he would have had the sex before putting the fire out

YANSU regarding being woken in the middle of the night.

The list is just weird though. Especially the role play thing which is a niche interest that many people, perhaps including your partner, find a complete turn off. Maybe he just isn't into it. It's perfectly normal not to be. Sex doesn't have to be 'interesting', I prefer it comfortable, familiar, tender.

Kind of. I feel, as another post mentioned, that many men don't make the connection between their behaviour towards their partner generally and a lack of sex. My DH completely takes me for granted. Yes he does some stuff around the house but it doesn't compare to my own mental load. I don't see our sex life as his responsibility per se, but due to some of his behaviour I don't very often feel in the mood. Having less sex is OK with me but not with him. There needs to be some compromise on both sides. For example, we would have more sex if he didn't stay up really late watching TV then expect it when he got into bed. I need more sleep than him generally so I suggested we go to bed slightly earlier. He doesn't want to do this as he 'doesn't feel tired then'

Behold! Some mansplainers and some MRAs to tell the OP her own thoughts and experiences are invalid. Fucking marvellous 🙄.

Run along @MoanerLeaser, be a good girl and look after that poor frustrated man of yours. I fucking despair of this place sometimes.

Is that "wrong"? I thought that was the universal language of "I'm telling you I'm in the mood and testing to see whether you will respond"

Not in my life it isn't?

I can forgive once maybe but a further 2 times would end up him on the settee. It's inconsiderate and selfish and needs slapping down.

So what do you do to make your dp give you sex? Buy him chocolates? Compliment him?

I think it's all a form of role-play. We act like we think we're meant to.

In mediaeval times, women were considered to be sexually voracious, more so than men. But obviously, that was still a big problem, bloody untrustworthy nymphomaniacs.

I've met quite a few men who complain about a lack of sex in their marriage and in every case I don't understand why they would think anyone would want to have sex with them

To be fair, the idea that you don't feel like sex unless someone goes a long way out of their way to make you feel like it is a pretty alien concept, to a man. If the whole planet were wiped out, bar one man, after say ten years on his own with no other human doing anything to influence his desire, he would still have a regular powerful desire to have sex, and nearby sheep would be nervous.

My ex husband would never have woken me in the night for a fuck! The new guy wakes me at 5am every morning.... but it is is something we've discussed and I enjoy. If I said "go away I'm sleepy" he'd leave me alone and probably wouldn't try it again half an hour later.. Maybe I'll test it and see!

I think the lack of effort in bed and lack of ideas OP mentioned is definitely something I could print off and hand around to some men. Soooo tired of doing all the ideas and moving things on in bed. It is most definitely not a turn on to always be the one ‘leading the way’ as it were!

I need more sleep than him generally so I suggested we go to bed slightly earlier. He doesn't want to do this as he 'doesn't feel tired then

So he hasn't got the message yet that you aren't suggesting going to bed early for sleep, but for sex before he or you get too tired?

I do get where you're coming from, OP. DH is pretty considerate, all things considered, but on a cold night it's really nice to get into bed and snuggle up to his warm body (I'm cold blooded, he's like a radiator.) And every single time, he'll draw me in close and say, "You'll get me excited..."

I'd love to just have a cuddle now and again.