To have called in to work when child

[CheeseAndBeans]

Mum of two, youngest is 3 and goes to nursery 3 days a week. I have recently returned to work part time on her nursery days after a few years out so am doubting myself and unsure of what's right....

DD was sick all through the night Saturday night, as per 48 hour rule she couldn't go to nursery yesterday and couldn't get anyone else to have her. She still wasn't right in herself. Called work 1.5 hours before shift was due to start and explained I couldn't come in as had to look after sick child. They were not happy and tried to guilt me into coming in, apologized as nothing I could do but would be in tomorrow as she is on the mend. This morning, she seems ok and no more sick so we all get ready to go, as we walk out the door she throws up! Obviously can't send her again today so had to call work. Again, they made it clear they weren't happy, it's busy today and short staffed as it is. Apologized and explained I couldn't do anything else.

I work in a minimum wage job, 4 hours a day, it's a pain when someone can't come in as others have to pick up the slack and I feel terrible but what can I do?
OH works 12 hour shifts and is much better paid. We would be so much worse off if he didn't go in, my thoughts are we have to put our family income first and so it's me that should take the time off. Neither of us would get paid for the time we didn't work. A friend this morning mentioned she would have shared the days with her OH but they are both in similar paid jobs.

What would you have done? What do others do if their kids are sick? As I said, am new to being a working parent!

You can take time off for dependents but it is to organise the emergency childcare not to actually do that childcare. Employers usually allow a bit of grace in this regard but two days in a row isn’t organising childcare, it’s doing it. I think that’s where you might come unstuck.

I do agree that you are between a rock and a hard place. It makes much more sense for the person being paid less/with a non career job to take the time off but it necessarily makes you an unreliable employee and that never goes down well.

Sorry just to clarify, I’d have done exactly th same as you. But I’d understand that it is never going to win me employee of the month. And I’m happy to take that in prioritising my children.

I did work with a woman who was dismissed for similar. She didn’t manage a 5 day week in about a year it was ridiculous.
So yes you can be dismissed in the same way that being sick all the time can be a disciplinary issue

High paid jobs often allow far more flexibility, including working from home / rearranging appointments when your childcare arrangements fail last minute. Minimum wage jobs don’t offer the same. Consider the worst case scenario here - you lose your job, would your DH be able to manage the finances without the money you bring in? If not then your job is as vital as his and you need to share the burden of childcare equally

Its not fraud. Talk about flinging words around

Of course it is. Sick leave is not the same thing as being off to look after a child. For example, if you are paid if you're off sick but parental leave is unpaid, you're claiming sick pay you're not entitled to. Sick pay is for the employee, not so they can stay home and get paid to do childcare.

You might think it's fine but employers will take a very dim view of it if you're ever found out. It will also impact on your own absence rate so if you find yourself genuinely off sick in a few months, you may trigger sickness policies which can go down the disciplinary route and which ultimately can end in dismissal.

Can you arrange some emergency childcare for next time that sickness is more than 1 day? It may end of costing more than you earn but if I were an employer I'd appreciate that you'd come up with a plan going forward.

Does it really matter if you say that you or your child is sick? Either way you are not coming in that day. Why lie? Too much sickness is grounds for dismissal, usually.

Why lie?

I assume people lie because they are paid sick pay, whereas parental leave is unpaid.

Call in sick, and don't ever tell anyone that the child was ill. You have to make your life workable. Your employer has other priorities.

@Passthecherrycoke

"Us working mothers need to do everything we can to protect ourselves in the workplace. It’s hard enough and we are disadvantaged. I won’t feel any guilt. No one will find out"

Oh bullshit to this, I'm not standing up for a working mother who thinks she should get special dispensation, that's not protecting "us", situations like this make it so much harder for women in the work place. People wonder why men can get picked over women for jobs? Children have TWO parents, it's not female solidarity to assert it is the OP's job to be home with the kids when they're ill, screw the job, the manager, the colleagues. Those saying "I'm prioritising my children" why aren't their fathers? It doesn't matter who earns what, you have equal responsibility for your children, if you are not willing to ensure you are applying that to your jobs you shouldn't both be working.

I assume people lie because they are paid sick pay, whereas parental leave is unpaid
People lie because. paid or unpaid, if you take time off to meet your child's needs, you are badly thought of in the workplace.

I dont normally advocate lying but it might have been better to call in sick yourself. Nobody wants a worker there with sickness and diarrhoea etc.
As a naive new mum 30 odd years ago i called in saying baby ds was ill so i couldn't work. Didn't go down well and didnt get paid.
My own mum said next time tell them you are sick yourself.
Sadly honesty doesnt always pay.
On a side note i cant believe mums and dads of young dc are still treated badly by workplaces in 2019!

This is the problem with a lot of work places, they run at the bare minimum and then when someone is you know, human, and can't come in, the shit hits the fan.
I've been on both sides of this, and quite a few of my employers over the years have developed a culture of blaming the person who's off, of assuming everyone is taking the piss and ensuring colleagues have the same attitude. In reality it's bad management, the attitude should be more 'Well yes X is off, but we'll do what we can to cover the load and make a contingency plan for tomorrow just in case' of course there should be concequences for those who take the piss but employers need to stop thinking they're employing robots.
I don't know where you'd stand saying you are sick instead - but that does have the advantage of a 7 day self cert..... So a more attractive proposition if it's likely to last more than a day.
Unfortunately if you're a 0 hours contract or still in your first 2 years you may find they use an excuse to give no hours or let you go.
Totally understand why you need to be the one off and not DH - you don't want to lose any money ideally but the less the better is just sensible.
Don't back down at work, apologise but be firm that this was unavoidable and there wasn't another alternative.

Believe you me I’ve seen plenty of dismissals for similar (large amounts of sick or parental leave, wfh whilst caring for children etc ) never once have we been able to dismiss them for fraud so not sure why you think you know better

You can’t do anything, your child is sick!

It’s awful isn’t it. I had this worry with my job all the time. I often just lied and said that I was sick the problems it caused were too stressful. Added to that I would also still have a mountain of work to do which just piled up.

Not all of us have granny’s on standby, and anyway the child usually needs us if they are sick. We are full time carers, it comes with the territory.

"Not all of us have granny’s on standby, and anyway the child usually needs us if they are sick. We are full time carers, it comes with the territory"

But not with the territory of fatherhood it seems?

Yes they can just sack you, if you haven't been working there for 2 years. Even once you have been working there for 2 years they can sack you if you prove yourself unreliable.

Children get sick, especially in their first few weeks of nursery but this will happen regularly throughout the next 15 years or so. You do not have the right to unlimited leave of absence from work whenever your child is sick. You have the right to emergency dependent's leave but that only covers you for being off for a short time e.g. while you wait with the child for a relative to arrive.

If you don't have nearby parents/aunts&uncles/siblings who can step in in an emergency then you need to work out a sensible back up plan that is not letting your employers down whenever your child gets sick - they do not have to put up with that.

You could ask around at work and find out who else is in a similar position, ask the shift schedulers to make sure you don't generally get scheduled to work the same shifts as each other, and arrange to be each other's backup childcare so that if either of you have a sick child the other will babysit so that you can go into work and thereby both stay employed? Or if the shift schedulers won't cooperate with that, get together a larger group - doesn't even have to be people with the same employer, but just a general group of people who have part time shift patterns, so that when something like this happens you can get on a whatsapp group and see who is available.

People lie because. paid or unpaid, if you take time off to meet your child's needs, you are badly thought of in the workplace. yes they do. And there is only a certain of parental leave you can take! And also nurseries are hot houses of illness so you can guarantee your kid will start picking up bugs. It’s a nightmare.

It feels impossible doesn't it? It's much worse when you're a single parent with no back up childcare, no back up financial support when your employer says "See ya" after the second time they get sick when you've already had half term and most of the six weeks off.

Then you're straight back re-applying for Universal credit. Rinse and repeat.

Tbf they can sack you whenever they want, legal or not. It’s up to you to then undertake the process of getting recourse through the courts. And the amount of compensation paid to a very time minimum wage worker is really not going to be worth it

If you don't have nearby parents/aunts&uncles/siblings who can step in in an emergency then you need to work out a sensible back up plan that is not letting your employers down whenever your child gets sick - they do not have to put up with that.
What?! This is crazy in 2019 we still can’t cope and be flexible enough to realise being a parent means our kids can get sick, and they do need their parents or close relatives. Not some random who has never babysitted. And how are they going to be magically available on short notice, to come to the house, whilst said child is puking up, or crying for mummy.

Suggestion for long term - can you arrange a family member/friend/childminder who could care for your daughter if she's ill?

It is hard as a working mother can end up having LOTS of sick leave; kids are sick often and because of that parents also tend to get sick relatively frequently, too.

"And how are they going to be magically available on short notice, to come to the house, whilst said child is puking up, or crying for mummy"

WHY MUMMY?

FFS this thread is like something out of the 1970s. Women wanting to be treated equally in the world but thinking they get special dispensation for being mothers putting no expectations on fathers. It's like the bloody twilight zone.

You may prioritise your child - but as an employer I prioritise my business and the other staff who are playing fair with parental leave and sharing it with the child's father, or making other arrangements.

I've sacked someone for doing similar during probation. In 6 months she'd taken 5 days over 3 weeks because her highly paid husband and his multimillion £ employer can't possibly be inconvenienced, so my business had to take the hit. Fuck that.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh I'd have done exactly the same.