To think that SOME high earners don't work that hard?

[Usernamemcname]

I'm a domestic cleaner. The people I clean for are usually quite well off, five bedrooms in a posh suburb of an expensive city. They are often in whilst I clean, sometimes they come back whilst I'm here.
I see a lot and I know they are in quite high paid jobs. Yet they always seem to be 'working from home' also known as fannying about the kitchen a lot and playing X Box. A lot of them either start late (10am so they miss the traffic) and finish early. One dad picks his daughter up from school every day even though his wife is at home!
I was always told that you have to work hard to get what you want in life, so why do I have to work two jobs whilst my partner works 45+ hours and we just scrape by? What have these people done to be so lucky? They're not old, seem around my age, what jobs do they do and why can't I do them, I have a degree.
Life just seems unfair sometimes. Unless it's a doctor, I'm sure I could have a crack at it.

Would love to know how you did it!

YABU
You don’t know how hard they worked to get to where they are now that they can “fanny” about .
My dh is a high earner and he technically never stops working .
He is able to take our dd to school or pick her up some days because he enjoys doing it even though I am a lowly ‘housewife’ so I am able to do it everyday .
His job is not 9-5, he is constantly answering calls and emails or working on his laptop even after most people have gone to bed and also over the weekend .. he’s never not working , even on holiday o have to ask him to put his work phone away.
You have confirmed what I thought though , that I’d never have a cleaner as they are judgey AF

I work for the Civil Service, in a fascinating but high pressure job. I'm paid relatively well (higher rate, not highest rate), but only about half to a third of what I would get in the private sector for the same skills, but I'm motivated by doing something that benefits the UK population.

If it's of interest to the OP:

• Background - parents who supported education and gave us opportunities to do extra-curricular activities, but it was at the local comp.
• First started planning aged around 15/16 making A-level choices after an excellent batch of GCSEs. Although I was clearly better at humanities and English etc, I knew that that wouldn't count for much in the job market, so I switched direction, much to my parents' dismay, and chose science A-level subjects which I found harder. I then worked my arse off to get top A-level results so I could get into a prestigious university.
• When looking at universities I went for those in the top 10 in the UK and got accepted by all. Given my science was weaker I only got onto a joint honours course, but chose a highly prestigious university where I knew I'd be able to switch to the (more lucrative) single honours if I did well in the first year.
• Worked reasonably hard at uni, got a 2.1 but also lots of extra curricular experience such as being on society committees, which broadened my CV. Then a masters at another prestigious university.
• For the whole of the masters year I was looking for jobs, and started applying to a select few in the last 6 months. I went for jobs that were actually 1 step up from graduate type posts, and I was generally under-qualified. However, I still got interviewed because my CV looked so good, and then whilst they admitted I wasn't experienced enough for the role they were recruited for, I was offered other good posts in the same organisation on 2 occasions, and then another organisation actually made a role for me, and I took that.
• Again later in my career I applied for a post that needed a lot more experience, did extremely well in my civil service exams, and again, somehow managed to talk my way into it.
• I'm now a little trapped in my role because having established myself there I was able to move to very flexible working, which is harder to get as a newcomer elsewhere. I still spend a lot of my spare time doing online courses to develop my skills and CV further.
• My main tip would be to throw yourself into things and make your best effort at everything. People who make half-hearted efforts at things they consider below their notice are noted.

Women especially shouldn't be put off by not having all the skills listed in jobs, and need to think about how they've demonstrated the skills or aptitude from volunteer work etc too.

That said, there are definitely barriers to people from 'non-traditional' backgrounds. Belatedly a number of big companies and the civil service are trying to overcome the bias, with special programmes and blind applications (e.g. not showing name, gender, age, university).

If you can decide on the field of career, then asking someone you respect to mentor you, or recommend someone who might mentor you, is really helpful. Many careers have their own women's groups now, and you could approach them for help finding mentors and networking. You may also find your university still offers careers help.

Yes, the OP hadsomeadvantages, but growing up black in Britain put her at a significant disadvantage and I suspect she has encountered much racism over the years that has served to 'keep her in her place'. You can pretend that race isn't an issue at all if you like, but of course it is.

Think you have missed the bit where I say I consider myself for appearing white. Thats a privilege. I am not white, my grandfather is indian. I know exactly how difficult it can be. I notice a difference depending on my hair colour. When my hair is very dark you can tell my heritage more. So yes I know.

However, pp has had huge privileges above mine. Educated, well off independent mother for a start. OP is like everyone else.
Some priviledge. But the priviledge she has is a massive bonus.

So if it's down to how much priviledge you have, then op should be further towards her goal. Fact is, is that its not just about priviledge.

A two bedroom flat to buy where I live in London is £650,000 upwards, even if she did save £65,000 deposit (which is hardly easily done!!!) there's no way she could get a mortgage on a salary of £39,000

She needs to look at different areas then. Croydon perhaps and the types of area where normal London workers live.

A two bedroom flat to buy where I live in London is £650,000 upwards, even if she did save £65,000 deposit (which is hardly easily done!!!) there's no way she could get a mortgage on a salary of £39,000

We just sold our two bed flat in SE london for 365k, she needs to look at other areas.

I don't understand why Xenia has to bring political ideologies into the discussion. Anybody can blame the other side which is a very lazy thing to do. Since it was mentioned I will mention the other side too. In DH's work place he is the only one who has always done courses, paid for them (vary rarely companies pay for any courses) and keeps on updating them and learns about new technologies all the time. He knows vastly more than most in his team as this has accumulated over the years. Apart from his certifications he also suscribes to a few IT websites and learns through tutorials. There are quite a few Tory boys who are permanent, have no fear of being fired, unlike DH they refuse to travel around the world, have minimal understanding of what DH does, they refuse to integrate new technologies to the designs because they refuse to learn them and keep using systems that will be obsolete in 5 years' time, destroy servers which DH has made by himself because they don't understand, take days to (not) fix systems which take DH 5 minutes to do, all they do is moan about foreigners taking their jobs and get excited about how brilliant a no-deal Brexit will be. Well yes, I guess after Brexit they will start studying the needed technologies and become competent DH can be in a meeting lasting many ours and keep on replying and solving problems in his team and other teams abroad. Even when he is abroad he keeps getting requests to do work that was meant for those colleagues because they can't do it. But he is one of the few that bothers or has the capability. In the meanwhile teams from other countries are taking up projects worth multi-millions and consider the London office as irrelevant. That's a big, multinational company.

So, I would like to ask where are those CEOs, managers and bosses who actually hunt for and reward years of learning AND initiatives? So many of you talk about being rewarded for your hard work and it seems to be in an alternate universe.

Bbcessex - you are kind. I know I have skills. I am a natural storyteller so I do well in interviews. This skill also helps me connect with people. I am very good at making connections and bringing people together. But this is not something I need to work at. I am lucky that I was born this way. It is also a skill that is lacking in my work area so it gives me an edge. I do work hard generally.

Just interested to know which bit of my posts on the thread are political ideologies? "I don't understand why Xenia has to bring political ideologies into the discussion. " If you read what I said I don't hink you will find much political in there, just lots of practical help the currently open to application Leigh Day blacks only apprenctices, the very useful CIPS/NHS procurement links. I thought I was trying to help?

May be I am being muddled with someone else who mentioned politics on the thread? Anyway we certainliy don't want to get side tracked with that. Most people have explained why they did well.

I do think moving helped in my case - we moved hundreds of miles for my career. Not easy of course not having a granny available even for a night's baby sitting a year but it did work.

choco, what is the career your husband is in? In medicine, law, nursing, denstry, banking you don't last five minues if you are useless. You are only as good as your last operation or case. May be your husband works in a specific sector which is different?

Thwere is a massive current movement to get more black men and women into high paid jobs - there more Indians, many more so than represented in the general population and good luck ti them as they have worked hard, passed the exams, applid for the jobs on time, got the A stars etc so in a sense they are over represnted and only 31% of current trainee solicitors are male by the way at the bottom end so one reason I suggest the Leigh Day blacks only 5 year solicitor apprenticeship (assuming as the poster had studied a lot of black writers on her dress because she is black whihc may not be correct) as it seemed to fit the bill but depends if you did A levels in London ( a requirement of the scheme).

You can either give up in life and think it is hopeless, everyting is stacked against me, I have no agency or ability to change my life and career because the system is against me, I am not male enough, I am not posh enough or whatever or you can just get on with it and try to plan well ahead in life and set achievable goals.

90% of the population are significantly poorer than the other 10%. No matter how hard people work, that will remain the case. That's capitalism. It's all well and good saying "just try harder and you can become one of the high earners too", and that may work in individual cases sometimes, but it won't change that 90% of the population will still be significantly poorer than the top 10% no matter how hard they work.

That's the system we live under.

Indeed so women shoudl try to put themselves into the higher earner bracket. Now that this poster knows that part of her mistake was that she didn't plan her career during her degree but only once she graduated she can advise her daughters as to how they can do a bit better financially.

Or she can say money doesn't matter a jot, jealousy of others is a sin, rich men don't get to heaven, happiness doesn't depend on mnoey and I will pluck the envy out of my eye and live a happy life. The sun it out. We're not ill so what more do we need on a lovely Autumn day.

Or she could vote for or start a more socialist political party ;)

That's capitalism. It's all well and good saying "just try harder and you can become one of the high earners too", and that may work in individual cases sometimes, but it won't change that 90% of the population will still be significantly poorer than the top 10% no matter how hard they work.

But we are talking about ops individual case. About why she hasnt, according to her, been given a chance. Not the whole population.

Besides not one person said people who arent high earners need to work harder. They have said though it may appear that high earners dont work hard, most have for years before this point or may work odd hours. Or flexible working etc.

They have said OP could have worked smarter and really made different decisions. She could have worked differently. No one said she didnt work hard enough.

But we are talking about ops individual case. About why she hasnt, according to her, been given a chance

You realise conversations are allowed to broaden and diverge over time, right? The thread has over 500 replies, I'm pretty sure your message is through to OP now.

You realise conversations are allowed to broaden and diverge over time, right? The thread has over 500 replies, I'm pretty sure your message is through to OP now.

Really? thanks for explaining how a thread works . I quoted you because you said

It's all well and good saying "just try harder and you can become one of the high earners too", and that may work in individual cases sometimes

Forgetting that no one said 'work harder', the people you are referring to (who actually said work differently), were talking about the OPs individual case.

If you want to talk about population level, do it. But dont start turning what other people said about the ops situation into comments about the populations as a whole.

That's 2 different converstations.

I'm a high earner. I have periods of intensity at work that have made me ill, sometimes I get burnt out with the volume of work and the long hours but then other times I can take my foot off the gas, work with flexibility and have time to MN.. its the periods of high stress that I am paid for along with my skills and experience.

@Hesafriendfromwork
Just wanted to say, Ive read your posts on this thread with interest, and I think you are awesome! Your positive attitude in the face of adversity and pretty awful circumstances is exactly the reason you've made a success of your life and long may it continue! As Henry Ford once said: "Whether you think you can, or think you can't...You're right".

This sounds trite, and isn't meant to be, but I think the answer is to be clever. Clever people prosper; clever hard workers do so disproportionately.

@ColaFreezePop Yes, I think she intends to live with her boyfriend’s parents to start with. She is certainly wanting to get on the property ladder sooner rather than later. It’s a very good entry level job but came about through her own effort and charm. On internship she worked silly hours, was unfailingly reliable, joined the social activities and was prepared to give up a few weekends to work as a mediator/ translator/ meeting recorder for the company’s new office in Milan.

I think you need a good brain and a no excuses attitude.

I think most high earners don't work that hard actually. I have a good salary and this is actually by far the easiest job I've ever had in terms of work load. What they pay me for is my experience, expertise, knowledge and for taking the responsibility for everything I'm "in charge of". Most of the people working for me, including the cleaners, work much harder than I do.

Op...I think you're getting a hard time here but in any case, have you decided which paths you want to explore? It's going to take quite a few knocks before something clicks and before you feel it is progressing. You will need a burning desire, ambition to go all out, hours and hours of effort, research, burning the midnight oil to get to steer paths, retrain etc. I got into £10k worth of debt over 2 years putting my DD into nursery just so I could continue working full-time AND studying at night whilst being a single mum. It's a gamble but it paid off. I'm not hearing from you that you have that burning ambition to do more and even more important what you are going to do about it. If you're not putting equal effort in hours, grit and research alongside on top of your day job, then getting high up the career ladder and by that I mean getting better paid will just be a pipe dream.

@beautifulstranger101 thank you. That's very kind of you

To be honest until I left my husband I didnt think my life had been that bad. I had to leave short notice and my best friend put me up on her couch for 9 months and my kids shared her kids bedrooms.

I knew my childhood and marriage wasnt right, but always thought I had coped well. Compartmentalising. Then during this period I was diagnosed with PTSD. I have had counselling and will like be in my medication for life.

Its only been the last few years, when i confronted the past I realised how bad it was. I learned at a young age, no one would be there for me. I had to rely only on myself.

Maybe overall that does make me lucky. Managed to come through loads of shit but with personailty traits that have helped me.

I am definitely lucky to have my best friend, her husband, kids and her mum. Who is actually now my mil as I am with my best friends brother. I have people I can depends on and am quite strong. If the rest of my life is as happy as it is now. The first crappy 30 odd years will have been worth it.

But thank you. Your post brought a tear to my eyes

By the way I got a 3rd class degree in Chemistry. Got two C's and D's at A level. Came to UK as an ethnic foreigner, without ability to speak fluent English and the zero cultural capita. I didn't even know anything about Parliament and how politics are run in this country. The kind of London comp where kids knifed each other and girls got pregnant at 14. I had no leg up from parents at any point. Certainly not a deposit on a house. But point is. If I can do it. You can from a more privileged background.

@Pollaidh I've worked in two large organisations that did blind recruitment. For the 3 roles I was involved in recruiting 2 ended up with hiring a white middle class male and the third role was left empty.

1st role - White middle class male was the best of a bad bunch.

2nd role - The best candidate on paper who was from a BAME background but didn't turn up for the interview. (This pissed us off as if even a third of their CV was true they could do the role.) All other candidates which HR gave us when we interviewed them we found couldn't do any part of the role. A former colleague of someone on the team had applied but HR hadn't selected him for interview. We ended up meeting him when we went to a different site, questioned a couple of people about his attitude, interviewed him and he got the role.

3rd role - Four of the five candidates we interviewed didn't have any relevant skills to do the role. The fifth candidate that showed a couple of relevant skills was a woman from a BAME background. I convinced the Head of Department to make a different position for her pointing out the challenges she had to overcome and that some of her behaviour was stereotypically female so should be expected, but she turned the role down. (The guy who interviewed me also interviewed her and agreed with the stereotypical part. )

When looking through all the applications it was easy to guess who was likely male and who was likely female due to their hobbies and other activities. Some people's ethnic background also can be guessed from this.

In all cases we had to write an explanation to HR on why candidates were rejected.