To think that SOME high earners don't work that hard?

[Usernamemcname]

I'm a domestic cleaner. The people I clean for are usually quite well off, five bedrooms in a posh suburb of an expensive city. They are often in whilst I clean, sometimes they come back whilst I'm here.
I see a lot and I know they are in quite high paid jobs. Yet they always seem to be 'working from home' also known as fannying about the kitchen a lot and playing X Box. A lot of them either start late (10am so they miss the traffic) and finish early. One dad picks his daughter up from school every day even though his wife is at home!
I was always told that you have to work hard to get what you want in life, so why do I have to work two jobs whilst my partner works 45+ hours and we just scrape by? What have these people done to be so lucky? They're not old, seem around my age, what jobs do they do and why can't I do them, I have a degree.
Life just seems unfair sometimes. Unless it's a doctor, I'm sure I could have a crack at it.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude what about after the financial crisis? Did they all get sacked afterwards?

But there are lots of people with reasonably paid jobs who didn't get there by being City broker wide-boys doing coke off a hooker's arse.

Nurses who've done a few additional courses.

Teachers who worked to get head of department.

People starting in various roles for companies all over the country getting promoted to supervisory/ managerial roles after several years of hard work, or moving and reapplying to a better position after gaining experience.

The country isn't divided into tory MPs/ city wankers versus the underpaid working class. Most people fall into the middle somewhere.

Lehman brothers staff were given cardboard boxes and told to leave. Plenty of people lost their jobs.

Not all bankers and traders caused the crisis and the crisis wasn’t solely due to the banks.

OK so @Usernamemcname what are you going to do about wanting and needing more "pennies"? You say you have been reading all replies on here and taking it on board but yet you keep going back to the whole "life is unfair, I didn't get anything handed to me, everyone else should earn less" complaints. It does seem like you were hoping for a pity party here.

@LaBelleSauvage that's why the title of my post says 'some' and not all. Obviously 90% work hard, have lots of experience, are very well educated and are in positions linked to responsibility and risk.
I don't see how what I'm saying is anymore controversial than the amount of attention that revolves around benefit fraudsters compared to those who are genuine and need to claim them to live.

I think the flash wideboy image hides the reality. Many really successful people on trading floors are not the loud flash git but are far more likely to be the maths nerd who thought calculus was fun.

@GreytExpectations when did I go back to that? I didn't say 'nothing was handed to me.' My mum gave a deposit for a house. I have been very lucky. I've not said that I want someone to give me a brilliant well paid job that others have worked for years for. I've just said that when I applied for graduate schemes I wasn't successful. I didn't know I needed to apply 50 times for the same scheme, preferably 5 years before I graduated.

OP it kind of feels like you’re chucking accusation after accusation at posters. What are you getting from this thread? I for one, have hung around on it because I have enjoyed reading other posters stories of how they made it. Yet these just seems to piss you off.

I bristle at my hard work and sacrifices being swatted off as luck or privilege. As do others. Very few people would deny that luck played a part but you didn’t even ask the question, you just flung the accusation .

I agree with your 1 to 6 but at no point did I say luck played no part. I had the brains to make it work that’s lucky for a start. I am with privileged people all day long. I am not one of them. One of my secret fears is that my children are so comfortable that they will lack the grit and determination that I did. It’s an interesting conundrum.

The one London trader I knew came from a working class immigrant family. He got a good degree in maths from Bristol and did work experience in the holidays which gave him a way in.

Haven't asked him about coke or hookers though so who knows....

OP - to your last post, no, not necessarily. I posted upthread about my DH so obviously this doesn't count at all, because it's not me. But anyway. Skip this post if you're not interested in a six figure salary career progression.

-He only got a third in his degree because he pissed about a lot. This was the point I met him (27 years ago).

-He pissed about a bit more, and then pulled himself together and got himself on a £3k IT course (borrowed money from his dad, so yes, a bit of privilege there.) This was the early 90s when IT was taking off in a big way.

-He then got an £11k job working for a bank fixing their credit card terminals.

-Moved up to a DBA(?) IT job with the same bank - on calls and often working overnight. Worked on YR2K stuff if you remember that!

-with this on his cv, he got a job with IBM doing IT consultancy. Travelled a fair bit.

• 2yrs later - Moved into telecoms IT - mobile phones. Worked hard - but brain power rather than physically hard. Started on about 50k.

-moved around amongst telecoms companies, during which time we had children, and I gave up work. Worked his salary up to about 75k. He was doing 12-14 hour days (incl travel) at this point.

• In about 2012, he got a tip off/work opportunity from a work colleague about moving into Finance IT. Went for interview - with a technical test that I couldn't even decipher - it could have been Greek for all I knew - and got the job. They offered him £90k, he asked for £120k and got it. Plus bonus of about USD 50k.

• Moved to different finance company (another US company based in London) - still doing IT/project management) and got a pay rise to £150K + USD 60K.

• Last year he brought in (gross - he's PAYE so a lot goes in tax) over £220K.

It does sound obscene - I still can''t believe it. I met him when he was a skint student! But he's done this himself- with a £3k loan from his dad when he was 21, and a third class degree. He has a particularly good logical brain - and he's great with people and a good communicator. What he does is now very very specialised and technical, and sought after by companies that pay a lot. And he's gone for it.

It's a real privilege not to worry about money. I recognise that. We put a lot away for the kids' futures. They will be privileged in a way neither he, nor I were.

I've not accused anyone personally of anything. I'd have to be a grade A twat to reply to someone's in-depth explanation of how they've become a success that they'd just been lucky or born into privilege. After they'd explained how they studied and sacrificed and worked late and in the same companies for years.
However some people (a minority) are lucky and some people are far more privileged than others. I'd put myself in the middle. Certainly I haven't had things as hard as some PP's who have become successful. I will repeat, if this was not the case then we would have to conclude that the white, middle to upper class men who run the world are genuinely the best people for the job. That's obviously not the case.

You see @Usernamemcname you say you're taking it all on board but then you come out with these defensive comments and whataboutery. Do you really believe every single person in investment banking deserved to be sacked after the financial crisis? Have any of the posters who've outlined their experiences declared they are MPs?

It seems to me you're entirely focused on finding someone to blame for the fact your life hasn't miraculously turned out as you'd like, despite your assurances that you're taking it all in. Lots of us from a WC/disadvantaged background have posted here but you're really not interested are you? Look, it's not different for you, you're not more hard done by (with your university education and two languages ) than most other people. If anything you're more fortunate than many but I think you're very invested in this idea that you're hard done by and you're not really open to anything that might contradict that.

Don’t equate earnings with value either. I don’t think a footballer provides a more valuable service to society because he is paid more: he provides a more lucrative service to a business who are prepared to pay highly for his specialist skills.

@SaveMeBarry Jesus, find me one example apart from my first post of me feeling sorry for myself. I didn't even say that all bankers should be sacked after the financial crisis, I asked if any of them were sacked as their roles are risk related and they lost a lot of money. Another poster answered my question that some of them were.
Here's everything I'm grateful for which not a lot of people have (that I am PRIVILEGED to have)
1.) I own my own home (well mortgaged)
2.) I have two, beautiful children with no apparent health problems.
3.) I get to drop my dd and pick her up from school 4 days a week and I love it.
4.) I live in a great city with good job opportunities and I could work somewhere in walking distance to school and home.
5.) I have a degree and I enjoyed my course:
6.) I have enough time for my hobbies and interests.
7.) I have experienced true job satisfaction and I know that the role I am in is important to many people.
8.) I am happy and I wake up excited to go to work.
9.) Even though I have money worries I do not feel that things are hopeless and I have access to a debt relief management plan which is helping me to relieve some of the stress.
10.) I have a supportive partner even if he doesn't earn much, he helps around the house and would support me if I wanted to change careers.

If it's a pity party then it's not a successful one.

I used to work in a very well paid job. I cant say I worked excessively hard, but it was very pressurised., phone going all hours of the day and night, meetings, no phoning in sick kids ill never shut off, even took calls on holiday.I left and now work for basic wage I ,am very very busy, work much harder but, I shut the door at knock off time and walk away! in the previous job I took a lot of responsibility the book stopped with me.

I often observe our cleaner having the same thoughts about us.

I'm 42 - had own business since 26.
Work about 3 days a week and make around 250k a year.

But it did a long time and a LOT of effort for a decade before it was anything like that. In my first year I worked loads and made about 4k total. Second year wasn't much better.

There are so many ways to make money and you don't need to have a degree or a fantastic idea.

Your job involves saving someone else's precious time.

If you can work out how to save someone else's time, or money - or both - you can make a business out of it. Don't listen to naysayers and don't worry if your idea has already been done, just approach it from a different angle.

Generally speaking time is more valuable than money, because everyone has so little of it these days and there is an abundance of money (for now).

Don't try and follow a new career path. Employment is so limited.

It's not luck.

The majority have degrees they worked hard for and then worked their way to the top and when you get there you basically do very little but delegate but that position was EARNED.

Some are in the family business and inherited their wealth but they're in the 1%.

You took a different path in life and that's on you. Stop coveting what others have and do something about it if you want what they have.

I started with literally nothing and worked my way up. I'm not at the top of the pile but I'm happy with my lot and don't spend my time wanting what others have.

It's so peaceful and liberating.

I think luck is a large part. I do work hard in a complex (some would say boring) area. I have managed to secure quite a few promotions, not cos I am great at what I do but because I seem to have a knack at interviews. I also start to think after a couple of years in a role that maybe I should look for promotion and then the little voice in my head says - don't be stupid. Next thing I know I am applying and .....

I then get the job/promotion and spend a good six months with imposter syndrome wondering when will they find out I am a fraud. I never would have thought I would have reached the level I am at in the organisation. Most of my peers have degrees and PHDs and I don't. I think they assume I do. I do have other skills. In some ways it is easier further up the chain and in other ways it is harder. Not as hard as nursing or farming (I have knowledge of these professions) I would say.

If you could do those jobs OP, why don’t you? There's your answer there, „why” they get paid more than you.

The people I had in mind are generally sort of mid to high level management. Usually in finance. I've read a lot about the finance industry (The Big Short, Flashboys) and I think that's made me think that there is a dark side. A side that doesn't necessarily mean that you get there by hard work but more by being a chancer and a bit of a lad.

Again - it's not about hard work. It's about ability to find someone else to do the same job.

Can you sit down with the CFO of tech company and help him structure an IPO?

Can you issue and underwrite a bond to help a sovereign government raise funds?

No I suspect not. So even if the people who can don't seem to be working hard and a lot of that work is playing golf or networking - you cannot do it. Most people cannot do it. To get to that level takes years of experience.

This all got a bit fractious didnt it? CEO here again.

Just to say that I think I had the privilege to grow up in a family that valued education, reading and books though we didn't have much money. As the youngest of a large family I hated knowing the least - it spurred me on to learn and know as much as my elder siblings (even if I couldn't really....) I went to a failing school and was falling behind so my parents moved me to a much better one - I was lucky for that. Though I didnt like spending all summer doing maths lessons so I could start there!

I was a pretty lazy school kid but because of my reading I became a very good writer - that got me scraping through exams even though I hadn't done enough revision. And finally towards the end of my degree I decided to put the effort in and get a good degree. I was then lucky enough to be chosen by my tutors for an academic scholarship overseas. Great! But when I came back I was unemployed for a year. Not so great. I spent my time doing something creative and brave.

Then I gradually worked my way up through organisations. I worked hard and got on well with people. I didnt have any connections, the right college or school tie. I got some lucky breaks no doubt.

But for the last 12 years I have brought me kids up on my own, working full time. I am proud that they have both turned out to be very good kids and have done okay - they have some natural talents, they are kind and positive people.

I now earn a very healthy wage. Do I deserve it? I don't know. It wasn't all given to me on a plate. I have missed out for sure on some things and sometimes struggled to keep juggling the balls whilst trying to stay on the conveyer belt. Like many other women I've not always been treated fairly at work.

But I know for sure there are many very talented people who work harder than me and who earn less than me. I would never dis-respect them or assume them to be lazy or talentless. And I wouldn't always assume my salary makes up for the things I dont have - like a loving partner who has supported my efforts and been proud of me. But i know my kids are - because I've worked in something that matches my values and has social purpose.

I earn six figures and am definitely fannying around when my cleaner is here.

It's not quite that clear cut though...I worked horrendous hours building up to where I am now. I would go months at a time working 80-90 hour weeks and wouldn't even see the downstairs of my own house from Monday morning to Friday night. I'd get home and just drop into bed, get back up and head straight back to work.

Now I tend to have peaks and troughs...sometimes I have weeks where I actually probably only do 2-3 day's proper work. But tonight for example I just finished at 1am.

I find it utterly depressing to see so many examples of posters starting from humble beginnings and making huge successes of themselves, just to have their success disregarded and attributed purely to “luck” and, worse “privilege”.

I often think people apply this more to women as well. It seems even more unbelievable that a woman could have become a high earner without someone giving it to them.

@Usernamemcname your post at 22.21 yesterday. Points 1, 2, 4 and 7 dont apply to me. I have done on the job courses. Things like external intensive excel courses, customer journey mapping. I have no formal qualifications above A levels. Things that mean I can add skills to my CV, but no, no formal education above a level. In the last few years I have become priviledged. Because I earn alot of money. I drive a company car. I have good relationships. I have 2 kids. One with Aspergers. Both are amazing people. I still live in the same 3 bed terrace house that I managed to get after my divorce. And no exh was also abusive and shit with money, so I didnt get a huge payout from him. I had that money because I always worked and used to over pay the mortgage so that he couldnt spunk all the money up the wall. Such is an abusive marriage. That house I bought at around 20. I worked all through my a levels and then full time, in a hotel and saved a deposit. I chose that instead of the debt of uni. No support around me from school or family for someone like me to go to uni. Uni felt like something someone like me was right for. I wasn't going to amount to anything.

I had some priviledge when I was younger. Definitely that I appear white, gives me priviledge. As I said some if my personality traits are common amongst those of us who grow up in abusive households or with parents who are mentally ill. Those personality traits have helped me. So is that priviledge?

Fact is I am more priviledged than some. Less than others. I would say definitely less than you. So it cant all be about priviledge. So is it luck? I have posted about how my lucky breaks would not have happened without years of hard work. So a small amount of luck, but without the hard work, the lucky break would not have happened.

Your list of you priviledges dont really tally with other posts. You say its not fair to earn more than you need. Your mother clearly did because she had surplus to give you. Is that fair? Is it fair that you have time and money for hobbies? Is it fair that you went to uni? Is it fair you had a deposit for a house, handed on a plate?

You flip between wanting to know how people get to a point in their career where they earn alot. Then say earning a lot shouldn't be allowed. Then complain you had to stop your childs hobby, but also dont think anyone should earn above need. Yours and your childs hobby isnt a need. Then you say you are happy with your life but want a bit more money. When people post that they dont believe its all down to luck or priviledge, you then say people say it's not down to that at all.

You constantly look at people you know who have it easy, lamenting how unfair it is. But also know people who have worked incredibly hard to get where they are. So why compare to the ones that have it incredibly easy? That's not you. That's not going to be you.

You seem to think that people shouldnt earn alot because a person you know had it handed to them on a plate. That's like me saying that you shouldnt have been allowed to buy a house. Because your deposit was handed to you on a plate. People need a home. They dont need to have a mortgage. You work to keep up with your mortgage. Even most people who have their career handed to them, have to work to maintain it. Like you have to pay tp maintain your mortgage. The odd few dont. But then the odd few get a house completely given to them.

So it that ok? Is it not ok to gift a house to your kids. But it is ok to gift a deposit? Is it ok to think you shouldnt have your home, because you were given the deposit on a plate?

I think what this comes down to you is that you think your job should be better paid. The reason it isnr is because it doesnt require formal education. You could do more studying and stay in the same area and get paid more. Lots of people can come in and do your job without studying for it or needing huge amounts of experience. That doesnt mean your job isnt worthwhile, its means it's not well paid. But you have the priviledge ot doing it and having access to those that earn more than you in that area. Those people are the key to you earning more and you have access to them. If you tap into their expertise, learn from them, map your career on their advice is that luck? Or is it because you will put the effort in? A colleague who doesnt do those things, are they less privileged?

Oh and I am up because i have an ear infection and reports due friday. I cant sleep so will do the reports now, take the kids to school, lay about the house during the working day tomorrow. I dont have a cleaner. But if I did she would be unlikely to know I have been up all night.

@jewel1968 - genuine question - have you considered talking to anyone about your insecurities?

What you've described in your post are SKILLS, motivation, drive, emotional intelligence, ambition and adaptability, at the very minimum.

So few people have them at the levels you do and yet you feel it's pure luck & circumstance that you've progressed.

You're familiar with Imposter Syndrome - you can address it and become much clearer on how valuable you are.