To think American diplomatic immunity...

[MT2017]

...should not apply here.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49961679

What's worse is that she was advised to leave by the American Embassy!

Greywalls12

Purely statistically. Lower level cases and sentences tend to be the norm, with the maximum sentences reserved for the most serious cases.

Would the maximum penalty be if you had, say, failed a drugs/drink test, or been racing or something like that (reckless rather than careless)?

There are quite a few aggravating factors, but yes, things like that.

Out of interest, if she hadn't had diplomatic immunity, what on Earth would making her spend years in a foreign prison have achieved ? I really hate the trend of sending already broken people to prison after a death by careless driving incident, ( including u.k Nationals). It's cruel and unecessary.

She said she would remain in the country but she lied because she left. She should have had the decency to stay.

death by careless driving incident

Wasn't the charge dangerous driving ?

'Careless' because it was on the wrong side of the road (I'm not sure if the base drives on the same side, does it?), so driving along with head-up backside not remembering which side you are on, rather than 'dangerously' doing 60 in a 20 zone?

Part of driving in this country is knowing (or so I thought!!!) that all road users are subject to the same laws and rules. It appears this is not the case! If diplomats do not have to follow the laws and rules or the road then they should not be allowed to drive here.

Wasn't the charge dangerous driving ?

They never got as far as charging her. In fact, was she even arrested?

They never got as far as charging her. In fact, was she even arrested?

...
Ms Sacoolas is now thought to be back in the United States after she invoked a special deal that saw her able to claim immunity, when it became clear charges would be laid.
...

“The police have the CCTV footage showing that she pulled out of the RAF base on to the wrong side of the road. Harry had no chance.
...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/harry-dunn-crash-death-suspect-anne-sacoolas-diplomat-wife-immunity-a9145686.html

No idea whether diplomatic immunity prevents her being charged, or simply means she can't be arrested and put before a court (two different things). If the latter, then it's possible to charge - and convict in absentia with the obvious fact that she can't be forced to serve any sentence.

I noticed trawling this story that Donald Trumps company is still on the hook for a whopping legal bill in Scotland. I wonder if he thinks he doesn't need to pay that ?

Ah ok. I saw this:

Superintendent Sarah Johnson said: Due process was also followed in seeking the necessary documentation to allow for the arrest and formal interview of the suspect

which made me wonder if you can’t even arrest someone with diplomatic immunity

Interesting use of the phrase "due process" there ....

No idea whether diplomatic immunity prevents her being charged, or simply means she can't be arrested and put before a court (two different things). If the latter, then it's possible to charge - and convict in absentia with the obvious fact that she can't be forced to serve any sentence.

It means she isn’t subject to - though she agrees to respect - our laws.

Seems people are researching this now. Looks like the guy was a spook who needed "diplomatic immunity" to be able to break UK law while spying on UK citizens ?

www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/jonathan-sacoolas-is-not-and-has-never-been-a-diplomat/

...
The UK has no Vienna Convention obligation to acknowledge the “immunity” of Sacoolas’ wife, contrary to all reporting to date. What does apparently exist between the UK and US is a secret, bilateral agreement to treat GCHQ and NSA staff as if they had diplomatic immunity. That is not at all the same thing as Vienna Convention protection under international law. I cannot conceive the grief of Harry Dunn’s parents, but I do hope that they are not deceived by the pretence at intervention in this case by Johnson and Raab.
...

Well if he was doing sensitive work - everyone knows he was now.

Yep, it looks like Mr. S at the top secret listening station is a spy, and has certain diplomatic priviliged, but is not accredited, so no cover for Mrs S, who is a fugitive from justice like Assange.

news.sky.com/story/husband-of-us-woman-granted-diplomatic-immunity-not-registered-diplomat-11830734

The fact that the moron in Winfiled House does not know who is and is not a diplomat is scarecely a surprise. He certainly isn't one, just a Trump cronie whose donations landed him a cushy gig.

This whole situation is awful but escalated by the families attempt to run away
I hope she is made to come back or cooperate with police from US

It's ridiculous that it should apply in this case

Yep, it looks like Mr. S at the top secret listening station is a spy, and has certain diplomatic priviliged, but is not accredited, so no cover for Mrs S, who is a fugitive from justice like Assange.

If we agreed to treat her as if she had immunity, I don’t see how that makes her a fugitive. Boris Johnson isn’t demanding her return as a fugitive, is he?

Boris Johnson is requesting the us revists their decision to grant her immunity. It's not boris's decision, it's the home country, that's how it works.

Fascinating read. The last paragraph caught my eye ...

I am not at all convinced, as a matter of law, that the government has the power to grant, by bilateral treaty or otherwise, immunity from criminal prosecution to foreign nationals, plainly outside the provisions of the Vienna Convention. This should be tested by the courts.

Maybe time for SCOTUK to swing in to action again ? The Dunn family might have a better shot challenging the basis of the immunity itself, now this has emerged. Not that it will procure the suspect in any case. But it might put the fear of God into US employees here.

Incidentally, why did they "need" immunity ? What UK laws were/are they breaking ?

Well if he was doing sensitive work - everyone knows he was now.

She blew his cover so he had to return home to some desk job at Langley. And looks like she went with him.

why did they "need" immunity ? What UK laws were/are they breaking?

In the case of the US Forces here under the Visiting Forces Act, it's down to the fact that they are all on what are officially RAF bases and not US territory, where they drive unregistered and non-MOT cars on the wrong side of the road. They also pay no Income Tax or NI.

Just like with the British Army in Germany, a crime on base not involving any locals will be dealt with under US Law.

MockersthefeMANist

Not quite sure all of that needs a secret treaty promising to treat intelligence operatives like diplomats if they are accused of a crime . I guess it's me being a bit thick ? Or needing a tinfoil hat ?

Now if said intelligence operative was likely - or indeed expected - to break UK laws, then such a treaty would be incredibly valuable. We already know GCHQ is in hock to the US as it can spy on US citizens, which the US cannot (well, not officially, post-Snowden it seems the US was busy doing an awful lot it shouldn't have been ....)

Her accident blew his cover so they were recalled to protect it after the accident.

The worse thing is had she not done a runner, I doubt it would have made the big press, I’m sure they could have kept her name out the papers and I’m pretty sure she would have got off fairly leniently.

The editorial pages here are starting to take note of the situation. Here's one urging the US to waive immunity. I'll post links to any others I come across over here.

nypost.com/2019/10/07/the-us-should-waive-immunity-for-anne-sacoolas/

A waiver wouldn’t expose Sacoolas to some kangaroo court but to the legal processes of another strong rule-of-law nation. And London waived diplomatic immunity just last year in the case of Youssef Amrouche, who was charged with beating his diplomat wife here in the city.

No apologies needed, by the way.