To tell my FIL he smells and needs to shower

[Stumpedasatree]

I appreciate this sounds harsh but it is an ongoing problem. He is 80 odd. In reasonable physical health apart from some arthritis but can walk and is mobile. He has long been a water avoider and favours sink flannel washes rather than showers. (I know this as i spent over a year living with him and my OH 20 years ago when I got acquainted with his personal hygiene routine). His routine has not changed since, and he has probably got more neglectful of it with age.

He smells awful, his clothes are stained and dirty, and unfortunately he has no sense of personal space so gets very close to you when he is talking. It's almost intolerable. I have small DC and dislike him hugging them because they will smell afterwards.

He does not pick up on subtle hints at all. Yesterday I asked him outright if he was having difficulty getting in and out of his shower and he claimed no problems at all. I want to do this gently but I cannot skirt around the issue when he doesn't pick up on hints at all.

My DH is useless. Knows he smells but hates to deal with it.

This is your husbands problem. You need to support him in how he wants to deal with it.

Stop giving him the option of being useless.

lamars ... I’m pleased you acknowledged and apologised for your bizarre words. Why others can’t read your response is beyond me.

OP ... I wouldn’t tell him he smells .... first, id start going round a couple of times a week and doing his laundry. Then when this is done regularly, if he still smells, maybe broach the subject then.

And all the PA 'I would hint that I think he is struggling and needs care' would go down very badly with most elderly folk I know, who are (rightly IMO) afraid of what happens if they lose independence

I agree don't be passive aggressive, just start a conversation about future care. Late eighties is very different than early 80's or 70's and all of a sudden, those highly independent people start to struggle. Just be up front, if you don't start that conversation he could decline, get skin infections, get UTIs from lack of care- I know someone this happened to and it's pretty sad to just allow someone to decline in that way when with a small amount of help they may keep their independence longer.

My Ddad (sadly he died recently) was a bit like this. He was really into being eco to the point he used his washing machine about once a month, his clothes were stained and if we pointed it out he would say a couple of small stains were ok and if it got too dirty he would wash it. (His eyesight was not great so i dont think he noticed a lot of the time) I think in latter years he would have struggled to get in and out of the bath but enjoyed living independently and would have been aghast at a carer helping him.

I think the fact that OP has said that this is not a new thing is the key here.
So all the (helpful) suggestions that it might be because of depression, dementia etc are probably not relevant in this case.
I think it depends on what your relationship with him is like as to whether it should be you or your DH that has “the talk” about his hygiene. It’s not nice for your DC to be around their GF if he is smelly, and might actually limit the time they want to spend with him, so getting this sorted would benefit everyone in the long run.

I think it's your dh's job to help him. If it was my FIL, I will tell him to help him baths, and wash his clothes, or bring it back so I can wash it for him.
If your dh knows he smells, he shouldn't have option to ignore it. When we were a baby, parents took care of us. When parents are old, it's our job to look after them.

There is no easy way of telling someone they need to up their hygiene routine. My late MIL was like this and very feisty with it. Her carers (who on the whole have great powers of persuasion) couldn't always get her to wash, even with physical help to get in and out of the shower.

She didn't want to wash or change her clothes which had yesterdays dinner spilled down them. We were exasperated. Being polite doesn't work, you have to insist.

"That jumper needs to go in the wash, let's get a fresh one out," and while you're there, pick out clean underwear, etc. Take the old things away to wash or they'll put them back on again.

OP Do the kids want to hug him? My kids are both very anti-hugging and I never force them to hug anyone. If you kids are happy to hug granddad I would accept they may whiff a bit. If they are not happy I would tell granddad they feel a bit old for hugs and a high five is better. But only if it is true and is coming from them.

*If he falls in the shower you will have many more things to worry about than a slight whiff so please do not push him into things he isn't comfortable with. He is unlikely to tell you if he is having issues because older people are sometimes very proud (rightly) and quite private.

You husband should also not expect you to be doing all the worrying about his dad. Not saying he is - but maybe he is!

The clue is your fil doesn't change his clothes regularly. That's a habit, and as you get older you could potentially get incontinence issues. He's mid 80's so changing habits of a lifetime won't be easy.

I agree with those that say your dh needs to get involved. Your fil needs a proper shower unit, rather than a bath and insist he uses this every day. Is your fil changing his underwear daily or sleeping in it for a couple of days? He needs someone to pop in and clean possibly to do his laundry.

I totally agree with@JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff . He’s a grown man, lived most of his life and can do what he wants, including smelling.

I would offer to help with laundry if you’re local- I think it’s fairly standard to help out an older parent living alone with things like this regardless of him smelling, and I bet it would be really appreciated. As a Pp said, it’s so hard physically when you’re ie recovering from childbirth so I can imagine when you’re older it’s really tough.

Please don’t patronise him and don’t bother asking him to plan for his care at 100- as above, most people don’t want to think about this and don’t expect to live that long.

I know it must be bothersome but it’s realky not your or your husbands place to control another adults hygiene

I don’t think a DIL should bring this issue up personally. It should be the child of the parent. The H here needs to talk to his dad.

Sorry, I just posted something a bit stupid there to another poster and asked for it to be removed. What I wanted to say to you OP is, I do not think he will change, but agree laundry may help. I would not push him to use a shower.

My late mother never used her shower her whole life, despite moving into sheltered accommodation with a lovely shower with a seat in it.
When she finally got stuck in the bath, and I had to try and get her out (unhappy memory), she had some sort of community physiotherapist involvement which meant getting a special device to get her into and out of the bath.

I think bathing is a much bigger issue for some older folk. I believe my mum, who would now be late 80s if still alive would have had a bath (in a tin bath) once a week. So for some much older follks the idea of a daily shower is just not part of their thinking. However, FIL, mid 80s, showers regularly.

Italiangreyhound

Sorry about my odd post.

I did apologise for it, if you care to read the thread.
I felt "80 odd" sounded a bit dismissive. 80 is different from 89 just as 20 is different from 29. It sounded a bit ageist to me.

But I accept I was wrong.

I will also put folding money on someone else complaining about my post that I have apologised for.

@Frazzledbutcalm

lamars... I’m pleased you acknowledged and apologised for your bizarre words. Why others can’t read your response is beyond me.

Thanks.
If it wasn't for your post I'd start to think I was hallucinating.

...would have had a bath (in a tin bath) once a week as a child...

LaMarschallin I did see your reply and asked for mine to be removed. i am very sorry.

I'm afraid I agree someone else may mention it, we are all a bit quick off the click on Mumsnet at times, or at least I am! So I do apologusie.

Does he live alone?

He really might need some help around the house.

Have DH go over to his and make sure his washer is working properly as well as other appliances, toilet, heat, etc.

If he doesn't have an easy walk in shower with bars and non slip flooring, see about getting one installed for him.

Are there stairs to enter the house? Check if in good condition and any rails are sturdy.

Check fridge for old rotting food.

Check his bed is in good order and wash all the bed linens and pillows.

Check that windows are in good condition and secure.

Make sure there are no loose tiles or rugs on the floor.

With arthritis, he might not be able to reach to get laundry out and put it up. It might not be possible to clean floors, bath, etc. anymore.

Check for signs of insects.

DH needs to put it in his schedule to go around and help him clean on a weekly basis.

Italiangreyhound

LaMarschallinI did see your reply and asked for mine to be removed. i am very sorry.

I'm afraid I agree someone else may mention it, we are all a bit quick off the click on Mumsnet at times, or at least I am! So I do apologise.

That's really nice of you. And I totally agree I said a stupid thing.
I've complained about my post and asked for it to be removed because it might derail the thread, but the wretched thing is still there last time I looked.

LaMarschallin that's frustrating, I just asked for mine to go and they zappped it. I hoped you would not see it. A definite reminder to read the whole thread! Anyway, thanks

Italiangreyhound

LaMarschallinthat's frustrating, I just asked for mine to go and they zappped it. I hoped you would not see it.A definite reminder to read the whole thread! Anyway, thanks

Well, I've had a definite reminder to engage brain before posting.

And the are lovely. Please accept these 💐 back .

(You know, we could make good money by running a book on how many people will comment on my post before it's deleted)

Speaking from experience as my DM's carer, at 80+ he is possibly quite unstable on his feet in a shower and finds climbing in and out of a bath difficult. He may also find selecting clean clothes a struggle. That's if he is getting undressed at all.

You or your DH could:

1. Help with his personal care, washing, shaving etc.
2. Take responsibility for laundering his clothes and laying out fresh ones
3. Fund the installation of a walk in bath. You'll still have to supervise 1 and 2 though.
4. Organise and pay for carers to come in and bathe him.

Get your DH to buy his Dad a load of new vests and underwear and shirts and/or other clothes. Then your DH can ask the Dad to do a clothes clear out to help a local charity that is having a collection.
If you wash the FIL clothes with a strong smelling detergent this should help.

Those saying he's an autonomous person who can make decisions- of course he is, but our bodies change as we age, so sometimes we need help/technology to help remain independent- for example, he could have a sit down chair in the shower. Arthritis will mean he can't bend/move in the same way.

If you leave people and never have the discussion,they may well become neglected. My great uncle was visited by a relative recently and found mouldy food in the fridge, the house filthy and him depressed in dirty clothes, unable to go out. That's not acceptable. or at least, he should be offered support and help to change that. If it's then refused- that's their decision, but it's not in a supportive loving relationship wrong to offer. Social services have changed their adult care criteria now to reflect this so if someone is neglected/living in dirty conditions, this isn't just considered a personal choice (what choice do you have if you can't see or bend to clean yourself up after going to the loo or do household tasks because of pain?) , it's considered a safeguarding issue.

He doesn't sound like it's at that stage but offering a helping hand with household tasks is pretty standard when someone reaches late 80's, and by 90, 30% of people will have dementia so it's not weird or intrusive to look out for that or consider it.

I think the dirty clothes are the main problem. Clothes really do stink if they aren't washed frequently and sometimes there is no choice but to replace them if they haven't been looked after properly. There's no getting the smell out.
I think the issue of the clothes needs to be dealt with. He might need help doing his laundry. Could your DH not say something about the clothes? I'm not good at phrasing things like this - but could he say he's noticed some of Dad's clothes are getting old and he'd like to buy him some new ones as a gift. They could go shopping together or buy online. Then go through the old clothes and chuck out the worst ones.
Then perhaps you and DH could say that to help FIL out, you will do his washing once a week - it wouldn't be that much extra work for you.

Then there's the personal hygiene issue - could you get an accessible shower put in? However, I know from some of my aunties and uncles who are that age, they were not brought up to shower every day (tin bath in front of the fire). They were brought up in relative poverty where every penny counted and there just wasn't the money for lots of fuel to heat up water for the tin bath. They've continued in this mode through their lives and they don't want to waste money on washing when a weekly bath and a wash with a flannel was sufficient.

Does he have any other children who might be better at approaching this than DH?

A tip for you if you can't stand the smell (until the issue is sorted) is to put some Vick's Vapor Rub under your nose when going to meet him.

Would he even notice if your DH went to his, took some clothes, washed them and put them back? Providing it was turned around quickly? And then each time he replaced, take some more and wash until everything is fresh?

I'm afraid I don't agree with those that say you should say nothing. It must be unpleasant for everyone that comes into contact with him