To think it's unbelievable that young people in Italy and Greece are mostly anti EU?

[Biwurlu]

I hear alot that in countries like Italy and Greece it's the opposite to the UK and most young people are anti eu.

Is this really true? I know no Italians or Greeks! But some here must do

Young Italians I know are anti Eu but unlikely to vote to against it given the chance.

I hear a lot of blame on Germany but I doubt they’d vote to leave.

I do believe that young Italians know that many of their current problems are home grown,

Just my take on people that I know.

We lived abroad (out of Europe) until recently and the place was heaving with young Europeans trying to make their way. The French were particularly scathing about the lack of jobs and opportunities in their country and had no love for the EU. I have many Italian colleagues who say that illegal immigration has caused real problems with racism in Southern Italy and some areas of coastal cities are now no go areas. The whole thing will implode in the next 5 years.

I do believe that young Italians know that many of their current problems are home grown,

You believe wrong, if you had spent any significant time at all in Italy, they have a better understanding of the EU project than most British remainers.

Same with Greece and other european countries, that has a rising anti EU 'project' stance.

It isn't black and white, same as it isn't right v left politically, but as for believing it is home grown is treating it as a simple black and white issue. The italians, greeks, and others not mentioned in this thread have already gone through the self reflection mode..

Au pairs I've had and met always been anti EU
Due to unemployment / lack of prospects due to Euro
Some said smashed everyone under 30s future

Had trained dentists and opticians and architects as au pairs that can't get work in Greece & Spain.

Watch the episode of Greece with Simon Reeve where he goes to Crete. Obviously only a small section of society, but I was surprised how vitriolic the language was about Germany and the EU. There was people saying that they thought that the financial problems in Greece were a continuation of the aggressions that started with WW2.

Greece suffered terribly from the Nazi's and there is a strong anti-German sentiment to this day, and many people there see Germany as the "King" of the EU.

I think it's unbelievable that you think it's unbelievable that they are anti EU.
They haven't exactly flourished under the EU.

The austerity measures over there are horrendous. I’ve worked with young professional Italians and Greeks who have had to come to the U.K. after being unable to get work in their countries. They’re unhappy about having to come here.

They’re qualified medical professionals. One of the Italians I know worked unpaid for 3 years for a large hospital hoping one day he would get a paid position. Working full time, doing the exact same job as other paid staff and was very much counted in the numbers, not an extra.

In Greece people have had to put their kids in orphanages because they can’t afford to feed them.

I’m not saying the eu are solely to blame. But I can see why people are angry.

Do feel extremely sorry for the youth in countries like Portugal, Greece etc.

I know several young Italian people and they are very pro-EU. Now my sample size is just 4-5, and they have professional jobs and have used freedom of movement to come and work in the UK, so that is a very, very biased sample and this comment is worthless.

You find it hard to believe that countries that have had hugely undemocratic and authoritarian measures forced on them by the EU (and lets be clear the mercantile Germany) are unhappy with the EU?

@Justanotherlurker - correct, never lived in Italy - but my exh is Italian and have spent quite a bit of time there and seen changes over 25 years.

As I said l, my observations only.

But I think they conflate immigration of non Eu people (and they were very much unprepared for it) with Eu immigration like many brexiters.

Love Italy but some things are not the fault of the EU.

Would Italy be better off out? Really don’t know.

Some actual research. Young people in Italy are more likely to view the EU favourably than older Italian people.
People of all ages in Greece are less likely to support the EU than other European countries. But that is hardly surprising since the EU insisted they stopped spending money they did not have.

www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/19/europeans-credit-eu-with-promoting-peace-and-prosperity-but-say-brussels-is-out-of-touch-with-its-citizens/

Both Italy and Greece have major issues with how their governments operate. Italy also has massive issues with corruption. Whether they were in or outside the EU they would be struggling.

I don’t think it is limited to Greece and Italy. I have worked with a number of Spanish younger people. All well educated but unable to get work in Spain. I was told that youth unemployment was over 30% nationally but where he came from it was more like 45% and what work was available was seasonal and poorly paid.

The Greek economy was destroyed by the EU.

That said, support for the EU doesn’t dip below 70% for all countries bar the Czech Republic on 66%, so your poll will have had to work hard to find such negative young people. The truth is that youth unemployment has always been extremely high in Greece and Italy. Their economies rely on agriculture and tourism which are precarious, seasonal, and low paying.

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjSgpi0lonlAhXtyIUKHdPwBgsQzPwBCAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fbrexit-eu-survey-italy-ireland-portugal-eurosceptic-poll-a8888126.html&psig=AOvVaw3b1PAdf5yCOdXGjacwHDze&ust=1570504257278145

I find it unbelievable that you find it unbelievable OP.

What a whole lot of bullcrap! I’m Greek Italian. I have family involved in politics on both sides, feck me, I’ve even have revolutionaries in both sides of them that were partisans in WW2. My extended family consists of 6 different generations. I have properties in both places and deal with bureaucracy. I visit regularly maybe even once a month and I’m extremely qualified to speak.
What a whole lot of bullcrap!
Some in this forum knows 75% of the Greek youth? Are you trolling us?
You all conflate a portion of people with anti-German dislike (and nazi hate) with the EU. Crete hates the Germans? Crete had huge casualties from the nazi occupation. I’m not talking bombing like here. I’m talking executions, famine, rapes, suffering you Brits wouldn’t even dream of and I’m not even going to touch on what happened to the Jews of greece. (I have family in Salonica where the city never been the same after the elimination of the Jews there) Many grew up with these stories. Up to a few years ago I had family that were widows or raped by German nazis. Do you expect these Greeks to adore the Germans?
Sure Greeks wanted to leave the EU because that’s what they do best; spend someone else’s money and refuse to pay it back. Everyone got 1% mortgages didn’t read the small print and then it was the banks fault for raising the interest rates?
Government embezzled huge amount of money and they tried to blame the Germans and the banks. If you borrow from loan shark what do you expect?
Sure there’s massive unemployment and many many educated people moved abroad but how is this EU’s fault? When the EU was giving money for improvements of infrastructure and creation of industry, high ranking politician became billionaires? Who’s fault was that?
On top of that we have other issues that Brits willl never ever face. EU provides all shorts of protection including from Turkey. You might all go and sun your arses in Bodrum but Turkish government and its army invade Greek territories on HOURLY basis. They threaten the islands with a repeat of the Cyprus invasion. I know, I have family in 3 different islands and see the Turkish fighter planes every single day. (Samos, Lesvos and Chios). Greeks know that it would be insane to go out alone. We’d be invaded in an hour.
So don’t come here because Brexit is a monumental cockup thinking others will follow you. If anything the sentiment in both countries is “why the fuck Brits want to destroy what they have to pretend they are the old dead empire of yesteryears?”
Both Italians and Greeks love to complain like it’s a bad marriage but they both know the grass is definitely not greener on the other side.

www.amazon.com/Flashpoints-Emerging-Crisis-George-Friedman/dp/0307951138?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

This is an excellent book to read, to understand a lot of the history behind the EU and the current areas / focal points of tension within it atm: Brexit definitely isn’t the only one!

The southern Mediterranean states joined the EU in the expectation of achieving the standards of living and wealth that exist in the north. Yet the EU, dominated as it is by Germany and a Northern European value system, is unable to deliver on these expectations not least because southern Mediterranean states have a completely different set of values, beliefs and cultures. Greece will never be Germany. Sicily will never be Milan. The South will never fit well within the financial and regulatory structure that has worked so well in the North.

The result in the southern Mediterranean states is anger and resentment as poverty and unemployment grow and disillusionment sets in. They see how wealthy Germany (and to a lesser extent France) has become, and that it uses its power to run the EU in a way that works for Germany.

I’m a Remainer at heart (I live in France) but i honestly think that the European dream is a lost cause. The countries (shorthand for tribes / cultures / value and belief systems) that have been drawn together under one umbrella are too different and too entrenched in their own nationalistic views to unite forever. The tensions are increasing all the time.

Italians (young and old) are told day in day out on every TV channel that it's time to get their country back from EU rules and brutal payments they make to it. There is still very much a tendency to believe what is said on TV etc because if it's being said it must be true. They are being fed lies on a daily basis about (especially) immigration figures and crime statistics.
Young people are more favourable in general (they've seen first hand the money pumped into their schools from European development funds etc) but totally favourable, no .

Corruption is still rife. Unemployment is high. The simple act of getting a job is still often rooted in knowing somebody who knows somebody. People stay at university until they're 35. (many faculties allow you to choose when to do your exams- so people don't bother) People buy degree certificates. There are hundreds of massive empty buildings (hospitals and sports facilities generally) started off with EU money which was gladly grabbed. When the money went elsewhere, the EU withdrew the funding and building was never completed.

Good factsheets in English here covering every EU country, very detailed surveys covering many aspects of life in the EU.

ec.europa.eu/commfrontoffice/publicopinion/index.cfm/survey/getsurveydetail/instruments/standard/surveyky/2253

Brexit drivel.

As a eu citizen I can tell you that the younger generations are very much aware that the economic deficit was driven by our own governments being corrupted and the EU calling them out on it. The work and study possibilities changed our lives for good the way our corrupt governments never would and we are grateful for it. It is actually sad watching UK going through this same process and thinking it is something unique or special.

It just politicians being called out to answer for their crimes all over again, portraying EU as the baddies and driving the citizens to behave like lemmings about it.

Italy is a fantastic holiday destination, but there is massive youth unemployment, especially in the poorer South so no surprise. Although we love Italy the prevalence of organised crime everywhere is a huge problem and the EU has aided and abetted this with subsidies etc

I have close family in Italy ( the more prosperous north) and I know that they feel protected by Brussels, as they have has a series of weak coalitions, populist and corrupt governments. Think Berlesconi. No one gazes in envy at the U.K. and their Brexit shitshow. So the idea they are just waiting to copy the U.K. is delusional.

During the height of the Greek debt crisis, there was a lot of anti-EU sentiment in Greece but I think polls showed the a majority of Greeks were opposed to leaving the Eurozone. Presumably because a return to the drachma would have devalued property and savings beyond belief.

I’ve also read that polling suggests that Brexit has precipitated a drop in anti-EU sentiment across the EU - having seen what’s happening and has happened makes life outside the EU look less appealing!