Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that actually, autism can be a bad thing and it's okay to say that?

505 replies

User172818289 · 06/10/2019 14:44

My DS (5) was diagnosed a year or so ago. He is almost completely non-verbal, not potty trained and not looking like he will be for a while if at all, has to go to a special school and doesn't really interact with anyone much. We have basically accepted that he is not going to be able to have a 'normal' life, although we do things to make his life enjoyable and easier!

New colleague at work, started at the beginning of September has a son about the same age as DS. She asked what school he went to, so I explained that he has autism and goes to a SS. She goes 'Well autism isn't a bad thing' and goes on to talk for about 20 minutes about her autistic brother, who has 2 degrees, a girlfriend, a reasonably normal sounding life I would say.

Of course we love DS with all our hearts but I can't help sometimes wishing he didn't have autism. I tried to say something along those lines to colleague, I said something about yeah but he can be challenging sometimes and she said that I shouldn't define him by a label and there are no limits on what he can do.

AIBU to think actually autism can be a bad thing? I am not trying to offend anyone on here, please feel free to take this down if anyone is offended.

OP posts:
finitemonkeys · 07/10/2019 16:27

@LoseLooseLucy
Autism is obviously the worst thing ever, we're clearly nothing more than burdens on society and on our poor NT parents and in an ideal world, none of us would exist and you'd have all these wonderful socially adept children that you could take pride in, instead of shame.

That is offensive as fuck. 😠

What is? Autistic people being told they'd be better people without a core part of their personality, or me quoting it?

PralineCookie · 07/10/2019 16:28

I assume that as you and PottedShrimps hate NTs so much that you're going to refuse to have anything to do with them again. You won't be served by, treated by, rescued by or be in anyway assisted or assist NT people again. You'll deal with autistics only. Good luck with that.

MargoLovebutter · 07/10/2019 16:28

I'm so sad that the thread has got so angry.

I think there is room for a parent to say that autism isn't always a good thing within their family dynamic or for their child and yet also value every individual person whether they have autism or not.

Surely, it is ok to recognise the brutal struggle that some parents have to deal with their autistic children, be that because of the lack of compassion of others or simply because their DC's disabilities are so severe that normal life ceases to be possible?

Where did kindness go?

HeyNotInMyName · 07/10/2019 16:28

@finitemonkeys, I think you are very unjust to a lot of the posters.
I dont think Autistic people who are saying they wish they werent autistic arent saying they want to be a better version.
And I dont think parents who say they wish their dc werent autistic say they want to replace their dcs for a better version.
I think that they are all saying that its deeply hurting people and they wish they or thier dc wasnt hurting as much.
And they are not assuming that they are hurting but they living it (if they are autistic), seeing it and hearing it (if they are parents).

Just as much you shouldnt assimilate the person and their disability/diagnosis, nor, i think, should you assimilate wishing to see a hurt disappear with wanting to see the person disappear.

BlankTimes · 07/10/2019 16:30

Just because you consider it a disability, it's not clinically defined as such and many of us don't experience it like that

The only autistic adults I've encountered who are adamant that they live a perfect life and experience absolutely no negatives from being autistic and rail on that autism is absolutely not a disability and has no detrimental effect on their lives whatsoever are on message boards and they are self-diagnosed.

OR they are in niche employment and live and work in an area where there's such a high percentage of neurodiverse adults that they don't have to adapt to being in the NT world because their whole environment is structured to accommodate them.

Every autistic adult I've met who has a job and a family as well as a clinical diagnosis does experience intense difficulties in their everyday life in a different way to that of an NT peer.

finitemonkeys it's perfectly possible for people to have several autistic traits, yet not meet the criteria for diagnosis specifically because those traits do not limit and impair their everyday functioning.

Diagnostic criteria www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis/adults.aspx
HOW WILL THEY DETERMINE THAT I AM AUTISTIC?
The characteristics of autism vary from one person to another, but in order for a diagnosis to be made, a person will usually be assessed as having had persistent difficulties with social communication and social interaction and restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviours, activities or interests (this includes sensory behaviour), since early childhood, to the extent that these 'limit and impair everyday functioning

Limited and impaired everyday functioning in all of those areas is disabling, that's without the effects of any co-morbids.

Ravingstarfish · 07/10/2019 16:30

it's not healthy to call something that's an intrinsic part of a person and can't be changed, "bad".

Depression, anxiety, the flu, a million other things can be ‘bad’ it doesn’t mean the person is, the condition is. The issue is that it’s a spectrum and someone with autism might live a normal life and someone else might be severely disabled. It doesn’t help me if people are positive because I know I’ll be cleaning up my sons pooey nappy when he’s middle aged. It’s nice to know I’m not on my own thinking autism can be awful and bloody hard work.

LoseLooseLucy · 07/10/2019 16:31

You fucking claiming I have shame in my severely autistic non verbal incontinent son finitemonkeys. Sling it 😠

PralineCookie · 07/10/2019 16:32

I don't have to support, like or agree with all autistic people just because they're autistic like me. Fuck that ridiculous idea. Neither autistics or NTs are a homogenous mass. One thing that really pisses me off is people treating whole groups of people i.e(Baby boomers) as though they are a hive mind and not individuals. I'm not kissing anyone's backside just because we both have autism,or are both women, or millennials.

PralineCookie · 07/10/2019 16:34

I think that my mental health issues are a bad thing to have(because they have a detrimental effect on my life). I don't believe that having them makes me, or anyone, a bad person. There is a distinctive difference.

HeyNotInMyName · 07/10/2019 16:35

when most of us were trying to say that it's not healthy to call something that's an intrinsic part of a person and can't be changed, "bad".

I dont know, I have a chronic illness and I am in physical pain. I would say that the exhaustion and the pain is bad. It is however intrisic part of who I am (I am not going to get better from it) and I can't change it (but I can learn to mitigate and have coping strategies).
Why is it not OK to say tat whatever is bringing someone pain is bad? It says nothing about the person. It acknowledges how hard things are for them.

finitemonkeys · 07/10/2019 16:38

PralineCookie Mon 07-Oct-19 16:28:01
I assume that as you and PottedShrimps hate NTs so much that you're going to refuse to have anything to do with them again. You won't be served by, treated by, rescued by or be in anyway assisted or assist NT people again. You'll deal with autistics only. Good luck with that.

Why on earth do you think I hate NT's? I'm railing against the rules imposed that create limitations and engender depression and anxiety in ASD people. Most of the people around me that I care for, value and appreciate are NT's and most of them are straight-up awesome.

I was sticking up for PottedShrimp because she was clearly upset, hurt and angry and some of the comments on here were pretty toxic so I don't feel her anger was unreasonable. I'll admit I missed seeing the later posts before they were deleted, so I can't speak for those. I just don't think it's right to condescend and mock someone who's upset and working through her own private daily struggle because they're upset and angry and don't approach it in the approved way. I felt bad for her being singled out and ridiculed by people that don't understand where she's coming from - it didn't seem a particularly fair way to deal with someone that's upset about their disorder.

Pagwatch · 07/10/2019 16:40

It’s a real no win situation isn’t it.
I almost wish my son had a different diagnosis because if I try and talk about how difficult his life is and how debilitating it is then that must be hard for people who have autism and for whom that is a positive aspect of who they are

But if your asd is positive and part of what is uniquely you and therefore precious that is perfect but it has no relation at all to my sons situation

Both of those things can be true simply because of how huge the spectrum is.

I would never denigrate or dismiss your experience. But my love for my son is a fact. And my sadness about how HIS asd makes his life harder is absolutely fucking nothing to do with some dream of a perfect child or disappointment in him. He’s wonderful.

Both of those things can be true. Lashing out at anyone who has a different experience of asd is a really dick move

HeyNotInMyName · 07/10/2019 16:41

What about the people/posters that @pottedshrimps comments made clearly upset, hurt and angry? dont they deserve compassion too??

finitemonkeys · 07/10/2019 16:41

@PralineCookie
I think that my mental health issues are a bad thing to have(because they have a detrimental effect on my life). I don't believe that having them makes me, or anyone, a bad person. There is a distinctive difference.

Yes, absolutely! We agree!

But my concern is that the word "bad" is loaded when it's applied to something that affects personality traits.

And what most people seem to actually be referring to when they use the word bad, is "the troubles an ASD person will face in life" - when most of those troubles will come from NT's that have the luxury of not understanding what we face.

HeyNotInMyName · 07/10/2019 16:42

@Pagwatch, always the word of wisdowm on this subject

PralineCookie · 07/10/2019 16:43

Having autism is not a free pass to hurl abuse at others. That's what PottedShrimps did. The comments she made were vile, as were some other comments that were made to the parents of autistic children. PottedShrimps made it clear that she hated NTs. Some of your comments suggested the same to me, I apologise if that's not the case but I'm not giving PottedShrimps an OK to say whatever the hell she likes, no matter how hurtful, just because she has autism.

LoseLooseLucy · 07/10/2019 16:44

Agreed Pagwatch, put better than me.

x2boys · 07/10/2019 16:47

Also agree with Pagwatch.

finitemonkeys · 07/10/2019 16:47

@HeyNotInMyName
What about the people/posters that @pottedshrimps comments made clearly upset, hurt and angry? dont they deserve compassion too??

Yes. And they're getting it from the 99% of people on the thread that voted that autism is bad. And, you know, society in general.

Do you really, seriously, have an objection to me asking for a bit of compassion for someone vulnerable with a disorder that causes her distress and feels upset because she's been shut down, dismissed and isolated by NT's on a thread who don't understand how she feels and don't like how she expresses it?

HeyNotInMyName · 07/10/2019 16:48

when most of those troubles will come from NT's that have the luxury of not understanding what we face.

OK.....
So thats it, we finally have come down to what is actually really behind all this talk. It's all the NTs fault. Always. For not undertanding, not knowing, not adapating etc....

HeyNotInMyName · 07/10/2019 16:52

@finitemonkeys, noi ssue with compassion on my side.
But compassion is for everyone and should work both ways. It starts with trying to understand the other's pov. Both from the NT and the aspie.

And having a disbaility/ASD/hurting doesnt allow you to hurt others and be abusive.
An equivalent is someone who has been abused as a child and deeply struggles as an adult. The fact they have been abused is an attenuing circumtances. It still doesnt allow them to be abusive.

PralineCookie · 07/10/2019 16:53

What about compassion for those of us shouted down by people like PottedShrimps? We can't talk about our negative experience because it's offensive.

HeyNotInMyName · 07/10/2019 16:53

Btw, if you ant to ask for people's compassion, its better if yu avoid being angry at those people for daring nt being compassionate enoiugh.
By acting like this, you are likely to get people's back up and get the opposite result.

Pagwatch · 07/10/2019 16:55

It would be nice if maybe people could take a breath
We all have difficulties and that makes us easily upset, especially when we should be allies.

finitemonkeys · 07/10/2019 16:56

Ok, fair enough - her last posts were deleted before I saw them and from everyone's reaction I'm now starting to get the impression they went beyond honestly expressed anger. So, beyond what I saw, I can't comment on or defend.

Again, not denying anyone's experience, not saying that living with Autism in any way isn't tough. My issue is with the words used and some of the posts here that expressed a wish for their children to be better "autism-free" versions of themselves because it makes life easier.

We can make life easier for autistic people simply by not having the same expectations of everyone and not having kneejerk reactions to anyone that doesn't talk or act in a socially approved manner