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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Advice for a Dad

106 replies

percycov · 05/10/2019 22:38

Good Evening!

Below is a letter I have just sent to the CMS.

I was conflicted while writing it as part of me feels i'm getting a raw deal but part of me feels i'm being unreasonable.

So i'm after opinions and advice from a mums (And dads) point of view, so all are welcome

^ALL NAMES HAVE BEEN CHANGED*

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing regarding maintenance payments for my son XXXXX. I’m currently paying through a DEO £490.69 a month, which is taken out of my salary so my monthly pay is around £850 a month.

I would like clarification on how you came to that figure, as you seem to have been given the wrong address for me, as when my ex partner Ms Smith illegally requested a member of her family who works in finance to obtain my personal details including my work address, salary and home address, they gave her an old address. So I have not seen any correspondence as to how you came to that figure or how long I have to pay that for.

And as that figure is quite high, I’m assuming you’ve been given very one sided information so I would like to explain a few things for you to take into consideration and try give you a picture of my situation and the effect it’s having on me.

Since me and Ms Smith split 5 years ago, I’ve regularly paid maintenance. Every month. Not one payment missed. On some occasions, owing to the fact I was self employed for a few years and I didn’t always get paid myself on time, the payments were late. But never by more than 2-3 days.

I always aimed to pay 10% of what I earnt, and as I was on low earnings this was not always possible, but if their was ever a shortfall my parents would make up the difference. For 5 years I’ve never paid less than £120 a month, Ms Smith was happy with that as she knew I couldn’t afford any more. It increased to £140 a month when I changed job the beginning of last year. One thing I’m sure Ms Smith never mentioned to you was that while I was self employed, I earnt on average £826pm from October 2016 until March 2018. So for that whole period I was paying over what your own calculator suggested I should pay. I roughly worked it out and overpayments come to approx £1100 for that period. But I never complained, I never made an issue of it, I always made sure I paid no matter what.

When me and Ms Smith split up, she moved to XXXXXXX which at the time when I lived in XXXXXXX was 101miles, door to door. Where I live now it’s 104 miles door to door. So for me to have Ben for the weekend pick him up Friday, back home Sunday it’s 416 miles. I have a 2.0ltr car and on motorways I get roughly 25mpg and with fuel at about £1.30 a ltr it costs me between £80-£90 in fuel. And despite the fact it was Ms Smith who moved away with Ben she has never once brought him to me, or offered to meet halfway. In fact on the one occasion I did ask the reply was “If you want to see your son you know where he is”. So for 5 years, every month I have paid the fuel costs. But I know none of that will come into consideration.

During that period, owing to the fact my earnings were low not only was I not able to maintain regular contact with Ben due to that fact I couldn’t afford the fuel costs for the 400 mile round trip, which meant I could only see him for 1 day a month. This also wasn’t helped by Ms Smith stopping me from seeing him as and when she see fit example being if maintenance was paid a day or 2 late, I would be told I can’t come see him that weekend. Ms Smith also let slip once that if he came to stay with me anymore than he did then I’d have to pay less, but I’m sure that’s not her motive for stopping me having him.

I also got myself into considerable debt due to low earnings. I was using credit cards for everyday things like fuel and food shopping and trying to maintain contact with Ben. Currently my debts stand at around £14k, most of it credit card/overdraft debt detailed in the DMP I have attached with this letter.

In March 2018 I started a new job on a lot better money than what I was previously earning. It meant I was less reliant on credit cards, however due to repayments and interest payments I was paying about £600pm on credit card and overdraft payments per month. So any extra money I was earning just got swallowed straight up. But I still kept my maintenance payments up and still tried to maintain regular contact with Ben.

As I was earning more maintenance payments should have increased, which they didn’t. I explained to Ms Smith that I was trying to repay my debts, trying to get by day to day, trying to maintain a relationship with my son. I showed her statements proving I was paying the maximum I could physically afford. If she needed money which was a monthly occurrence, I would ask my parents to give it her, and 9 times out of 10 they would. If Ben needed any clothes or trainers for school etc which again was a monthly request, I would order it on online on credit and have it sent, no questions asked. I would always help where I could. One year when Ms Smith was struggling, my parents paid a whole years car insurance for her. So I don’t know what information Ms Smith has given you but despite her making it very difficult for me to maintain a relationship with my son, I have always helped where possible and Ben never went without anything he needed and she reluctantly understood my situation regarding my debts.

At the beginning of this year, on the brink of financial ruin, with debt collectors knocking my door regularly and almost losing everything I contacted stepchange debt charity. Told them my situation and they were very helpful. I was put onto a debt management plan, they essentially took control of my finances. And although my debt remains, my repayments were reduced significantly. As a result of this I was able to increase what I paid to Ms Smith.

But we had a disagreement over contact arrangements, her not letting me see or speak to him over the Christmas period at all. As a result I told her I would be seeking family mediation and possibly a court order if she continues to deny me access. It was then she told me she had contacted you regarding the fact I had not paid what I was supposed to when I changed jobs even though she knew the situation I was in.

So I’m assuming that’s when Ms Smith illegally obtained my information and the letters started going to an old address as she never asked my where I lived once. But she explained to me you were involved and how much I would have to pay back. Knowing I could not afford it and what implications it would have on my finances I pleaded with her, I kept showing her statements and wage slips trying to get her to be reasonable, and knowing I couldn’t afford it she went ahead anyway.

That's when the DEO kicked in. And as you can see from the DMP summary I have sent, every pound I earnt was accounted for. Once bills and day to day items were paid for, any surplus went on debt repayments. I live a very modest life. I don’t drink, don’t smoke, don't’ live extravagantly. I rent a room in a house because I can’t afford to live alone so Ben can’t have a room for himself. Only leisure time I have is when I take Ben to the cinema or bowling etc. I pay to keep my car on the road because without it I wouldn’t be able to travel to Ben.

So I hope you can see what sort of impact it’s having now I’m having £490 taken out of my salary every month. My debts are no longer being paid off so debt collectors are now chasing me again which is a massive stress on me.
I have missed car insurance payments, which if I miss any more will be cancelled. I have missed car repayments which has resulted in penalty fines. I am now relying on credit cards to get me by with day to day items such as food and fuel. I’m working 60hrs a week minimum to try get some overtime. Some days without lunch because I can’t afford it. I have to borrow money from people to afford to travel to see Ben, but I’m too ashamed to ask any more. If I keep missing car repayments it will be repossessed. I am an on call firefighter, if i was to lose my car then i would lose my job, which would mean i would lose approx £150-£200 extra income per month as well as having to spend about £200 on train tickets to see him, which I won’t be able to afford so I just won’t be able to see him any more as his mother wouldn’t ever drive up here. I paid £90 onto a credit card to arrange a family mediation meeting, to try sort this situation and to try get regular contact with Ben, but Ms Smith refused to show up. And a court order is out the question as I’d ever be able to afford it.

Ben is the most important thing in my life, it breaks my heart that I haven’t been able to have a proper relationship with him. We have a great relationship when I do see him, he loves coming to see me and gets upset when he has to leave which kills me. I think that adds to Ms Smith resentment towards me and why she tries to make maintaining a relationship with him as difficult as possible.

I don’t engage with her when she tries to argue, I don't swear at her, I was never violent or abusive towards her, my family were always good to her and despite the fact she is now getting a large sum of money every month off me she still sends me horrible abusive texts, she still tries to deny me access for no reason, her and her family write things about me on social media, lies about me, constantly telling me I am a bad father and I should try see Ben more yet its her that puts the obstacles in the way. I know a lot of this information is irrelevant but who else can I tell? The system is so heavily stacked in favour of mums, so I just have to accept it.

Ms Smith is a great Mum, and has raised Ben well. I know she has struggled financially too which is why I’ve always been willing to help out where I can. But she blames her situation on me, she moved to one of the most expensive counties to be closer to her parents and since then has struggled financially. But I have struggled too but she doesn’t see that, she thinks I live a life of luxury and I’m sitting on a pot of gold when I’m not and I think that’s where the resentment and unwillingness to help me maintain a relationship with Ben has come from. My parents have also received abusive messages from her too, which is very unreasonable as they’ve always helped her. So now they are unwilling to help anymore.

At the time of writing I have £109 in my bank account. I got paid 2 days ago and will not get paid again until the end of the month. My credit cards are all maxed out (again). And I still have bills to pay this month. I’m unable to buy things for Ben, clothes and toys etc. His birthday was recently, I had to borrow money from parents to be able to afford presents form him. When he comes to stay I’m unable to afford little things such as cinema, trips out any more, the best I can do for him is a kickabout in the park or a walk, not very exciting for a 10yr old. Whereas previous summers we’d go the beach for the day or theme parks. So tell me is my son really benefiting from this?

I haven’t lived in the same place for more than 6 months because I’m trying to stay one step ahead of the debt collectors. The stress of waiting for that knock on the door is one I wouldn’t wish on anyone. And when I was put onto my DMP I cannot put into words the relief I felt that I was given some breathing space and that feeling I was going to sink had left me. But now it’s back, and I feel like I’m about to sink again.

So that’s my situation right now. It’s pretty desperate. I’m on the brink of ruin not only financially but personally too. And Ms Smith knows this, and she doesn’t care. “It is what it is” was a response I got from her.

Everything I have put in this letter is provable with texts or bank statements, I’m not making anything up for sympathy, it’s just the situation as it is.

So many dads don’t care about their children, I am one of the ones that do everything I can for my son. I would lay down my life for my boy and he is literally the only thing keeping me going at the minute.

So I hope I get a response from you, and not just an automated robotic response hiding behind regulations etc. An actual response, from a person. And if you think the amount you are taking off me is fair then I want you to tell me why you think it’s fair. And if you think it’s ok to push someone to the brink of ruin, I want you to tell why you think it’s ok. Yes Ms Smith is getting back payments but it’s Ben that is losing out because whereas before I was able to buy him things and take him places, he doesn’t get any of that any more because I can’t afford to. And once I lose my car, which is inevitable then I can’t see how I will be able to maintain contact. So I want you to tell me why you think that’s ok.

Hope to hear from you soon

OP posts:
Fishcakey · 06/10/2019 17:42

They won't care. They go by the calculator and that's that.

ThisMustBeMyDream · 06/10/2019 17:51

I'm also a recieving parent from 2 men. One of whom pays £120 a month. And has done for 10 years. He pays extra's such as mobile phone and pocket money. See's his son once a week. I have no issue with what he pays. I am a higher earner than him, and always will be.

The other pays £240 for 2 children, cms calculated. He doesn't see them and doesn't pay any extra's.

I know which I'd rather have.

AnneElliott · 06/10/2019 17:56

You're a retained fire fighter op? What's your full time job? And I can't believe other services won't take a retained firefighter on transfer - unless it's a service which is whole time only like LFB. The services that have retained are desperate for them.

I agree the letter is too long and personal, but I think you've sent it anyway? Short and factual is generally better.

LouLouLoupee · 06/10/2019 17:56

Sell the car and buy one you can afford to run. The difference there alone will probably give you at least a couple hundred extra a month by the time you consider car payment, insurance, fuel, tax on such a beast of a car. I’m surprised stepchange didn’t also urge you to consider this.

Tellmetruth4 · 06/10/2019 17:58

I can see you’re in a bad situation OP. Heavily edit the letter though Flowers

ThisMustBeMyDream · 06/10/2019 18:03

Sometimes cars aren't made through choices. My ex's have all been "gifted" cars and not been given choices over what they were. Parents handing their old car down to their kids is quite common. Sometimes this works out okay, but not always. To go and sell the gift could really upset the person who gave it trying to help.

Berating him for having a 2l car is pointless. There are plenty of reasons why he may have a car like that. Suggesting he look at selling it and buying something else is fine - but he could be swapping a reliable car for something that ends up costing more in repairs. 2nd hand cars are a minefield.

TequilaPilates · 06/10/2019 18:20

Sell the car and buy one you can afford to run.

How when he's got the car on hp, so likely owes more on the car loan than the car is worth, has 14k of debt and has maxed out all credit cards.

How does he get the money to buy a new car? Maybe the mum should start bringing the son down for contact as she chose to move away and then op wouldn't need to pay out £90 in fuel.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 06/10/2019 18:29

I don't sympathise with some of the stuff but I do sympathise that his ex has chosen to move so far away and not do any of the travelling. I feel that's unfair.

Co parenting has to involve effort from BOTH sides. It's not just up to the man to do all the bending over backwards and I say that as a divorced RP.

changedtempforprivacy · 06/10/2019 18:35

Deadbeat dad, full of excuses. Why should his son suffer because the father won't get a better paid job and has been living being his means and has debts? If the son was really the priority, the father could move closer to his son. He is not sacrificing a career but a minimum wage job. He could earn the minimum wage 5 minutes down the road and share some of the parenting, but this is not the fathers priority

TequilaPilates · 06/10/2019 18:41

changedtempforprivacy

And if mum then decided to move again? Should he just keep leaving jobs and following them?

There are many reasons why it's not possible to just leave your job and move away - lack of money for one. Why didn't mum consider the cost of contact before moving away and come to an agreement as to how they could work it?

Apart from anything else the distance prevents the child from seeing his dad during the week doesn't it?

changedtempforprivacy · 06/10/2019 19:11

Tequilapilates - mum has moved closer to her parents so the parents can help raise the son presumably helping with school runs etc. Presumably a permanent move. If the father moved closer he could help with that

TequilaPilates · 06/10/2019 19:16

changedtempforprivacy

I don't agree with that. By moving away she has effectively stopped the child from having a relationship with his dad and that isn't right. If all he gets is eow, and only 1 day as he can't afford 2 return journeys in one weekend and only has a room in a shared house so can't have overnight visits anyway then moving that far away also stops dad from being able to see him during the week.if mum needed help with school run, and you think dad could help if he were to move closer, than had mum stayed put dad could have helped anyway couldn't he? But of backwards logic to justify mum moving away by saying if dad moved closer he could help out more. If mum hadn't moved away then dad could help.out more.

PencilsInSpace · 06/10/2019 19:30

The OP is doing what he can

No he's not. He's arguing with the CMS that he should be allowed to pay less than the legal minimum. He's running away from his debts while at the same time racking up new debts.

OP the longer you leave it to face your debts the bigger they will get - your creditors will catch up with you.

Go back to Stepchange and see if you can update your DMP. You need to be honest about ALL your debts including what you owe in backdated child maintenance, new credit card debts and car finance. Be honest about all your income and all your expenditure, including petrol costs to see DS.

You will have to pay the 12% legal minimum child maintenance but you may be able to negotiate smaller repayments of the arrears.

Once you have a handle on things and have negotiated affordable repayments DON'T default on the payments and DON'T take out further credit. You'll just end up in court.

Also you might qualify for a debt relief order depending on the total size of your debt (not including child maintenance - that cannot be added to a DRO).

Contact arrangements for your DS are an entirely separate issue. You've had good advice on going to court for that.

Clownfish123 · 06/10/2019 21:01

The attitudes or some of these posters are shocking. It's almost bullying, and could actually push someone over the edge.
'Dead beat dad' 'your poor son' 'pitiful' ' get a better job'
Fucking awful thread to read.
Have no advice OP, but really hope you can work something out that gets you back on an even keel and that you can continue to see your son. It would break my heart if someone moved my son 100 miles away from me.

Graphista · 06/10/2019 21:59

ThisMustBeMyDream - seeing as it's me you partly quoted in your disagreement with those of us pointing out OP'S posts flaws, it's actually precisely because I DO know what it's like to raise a child on a low income that my sympathy for op is in short supply!

I have plenty of empathy & sympathy thanks - for his child mainly and also for his ex.

And given his attitude to paying cm I rather suspect we're also not getting the whole truth re the contact situation.

As I said I'd love to hear the other side of this story, while also being aware the truth would probably be somewhere in the middle I certainly don't think we're getting the whole truth here.

The advice to go back to stepchange to review the debt situation being completely honest with them is good advice.

I'm also wondering if it would actually be better if op moved back in with his parents (if they were willing) until he got his finances and relationship with his son back on an even keel.

PencilsInSpace · 06/10/2019 22:16

OP, did you leave your ex with any debts taken out in her name (or jointly), but which you arranged?

Was your mishandling of money part of the reason you split up?

changedtempforprivacy · 06/10/2019 22:20

Tequilapilates - so many single mothers move back to be close to their parents because they need their support- physical and financial. If the fathers were providing this support - e.g. doing 50/50 care, and meeting 50% of the costs of raising their children, the mothers wouldn't need or want to move ..

changedtempforprivacy · 06/10/2019 22:24

My limited sympathy is as a lone parent whose ex husband moved back to mum and dad for an easy life and doesn't provide any financial or other support and isn't consistent with contact either. My sympathies are fully with OP's ex here who is tak ing responsibility for their child

PixieDustt · 06/10/2019 22:38

It's hard one really.
There is only one side of the story.
However if it is true I don't think your ex limiting contact is on at all and should meet half way at least sometimes.

Gingerkittykat · 07/10/2019 00:55

Like other posters have said you need to stick to the bare facts of maintenance, not the history of the relationship. An example is the ex seemingly getting your address illegally (why would she not have your address anyway?) since that is nothing to do with the CMS and something to take up with the company she got the data from.

What do you want from the CMS? Is it a mandatory reconsideration? Is it to reduce your payment of arrears? Is it to recalculate your current maintenance payments? Do you want a variation to pay for travel to see your son? You need to make that clear in the letter.

How long has the CMS case been open for? It is not clear whether the maintenance you were paying before was an informal arrangement or whether you have underpaid the legal amount for some time and built up arrears that way. It took a very long time of non payment for my ex to have a DOE order put into place which suggests to me that you have built up arrears over a longer period of time. If you had never missed a payment then there would be no DOE order or arrears to pay.

You can ask for a copy of all of your data under the data protection act and if it is incorrect go from there.

30to50FeralHogs · 07/10/2019 01:09

Self pitying twaddle. I couldn’t even read more than 1/10 of it as it was so long and waffley.

If you’re self employed I would bet my house that the actual cost of raising a child is far higher than the amount any non-resident parent has been ordered to pay.

Cut all the waffle, send them your actual address so that your ex doesn’t have to hunt you down, and your true earnings without banging on about petrol etc. There will be costs involved in visiting a child if you don’t live next door, get over it.

And pay your way so that your child has a decent standard of living.

TequilaPilates · 07/10/2019 06:50

changedtempforprivacy

I'm sorry. I still don't agree that it's ok for the rp to move many miles away from the nrp, preventing them from having a relationship with the child.

You don't know the circumstances in this case. The dad is clearly on a low income. The mum may well be receiving a lot of help in the form of benefits so to say he should be paying 50% of the costs is unrealistic. Maybe he wanted 50/50 care - but working 60 hours a week makes that impossible. If he was doing 50/50 then he wouldn't have to pay any maintenance at all would he?

Even if the mum had reason to move away at the very least she should be doing 50% of the travelling.

macmustard · 07/10/2019 07:16

So you move around evading debt collectors, whinging about the paltry amount you pay towards your sons upbringing and you want sympathy? And if you're paying her bills on some months and buying stuff for your son - why not just send the actual money so she doesn't have to bloody ask you? Probably because it's a method of control for you.

Mummybares · 07/10/2019 07:17

@macmustard well said

DuchessMinnie · 07/10/2019 07:36

No sympathy from me either I'm afraid. I have an ex who pays less than the CMS amount because it's all he can afford he says and he has lots of other expenses and wishes he could "help" me more. "Help" me to raise his children?? Madness. I agree with the others who have said trying to pay 10% is not something to be proud of. And paying £600 on debt repayments is great but it doesn't put food on the table does it?

Let me assure you OP, no RP goes to the CMS for the fun of it, it is always out of desperation to get what she (almost always she) needs to look after the child.

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