Most women and quite a few useless men...

[rainydays5]

I suppose my AIBU is, to think that quite a few women put with so much crap from men but when they eventually cut the cord and move on, the men become confused as to why their relationship has failed. When the women finally gives up mothering the adult man child (in a sense)

This is NOT a bashing thread. Im jus curious of the males psyche. What I have noticed quite common are, women talking about their partners not stepping up? Not that long ago a friend of someone I know is left confused as to why his partner has jus upped and left.. they have a 1 year old DS. From what I know it was due to his behaviour- not doing his part as a parent or cleaning up after himself. Expacting her to do it 🤔 She did speak to him about it but he didn't listen.

Why do most men (not all) think that family life is down to the women to maintain and structure? Why do you choose not to listen when your wife/partner speaks to you?

Because society sets different expectations for boys and girls and unless your parents or adult influences work to counteract this as you grow up we end up conditioned into believing our roles are care givers as women - this extends usually to everyone in our lives, children, partner, friends - and are that our needs are last behind everyone and everything else.

Since it became virtually impossible to buy a house on one salary, most women have had to go out to work. We don't get to have it all but we do get to do it all.

So much for having choices eh? Thank you Germaine Greer.

Anyway, my theory is that, while they're happy to benefit from the extra money another salary brings, "they" didn't choose for society to change the way it has, so why should they do more at home, i.e. why should their lives become harder?

Of course this is a MASSIVE generalisation and most of the men I know are decent human beings and will step up.

Why do most men (not all) think that family life is down to the women to maintain and structure?

Because they don’t want to do it. It’s really that simple.

I'm just not seeing many men who will step up apart from close family.
My son and cousins and uncles all do. Maybe it's upbringing but both my ex husbands and all my colleagues husbands don't.
I think they do hear what is being said but just choose to ignore it.
Then act all surprised when their partners finally leave. Mainly because they have an inflated sense of their own importance which women don't tend to have.

Yes, I do believe men choose not too. I also believe, sometimes, that women do unconsciously enable just to have an easy life- until the light bulb moment.
Again, it is our jobs as parents to cut that generational cycle.
To be fair the cycle is slowly changing- women are becoming more empowered. Thank goodness!!

My pet hate is when a women finally stands up for herself she is automatically called "crazy" or there is "something with you". When NO actually Bill I'm sick of being your mother!

It's probably because most of these men grew up seeing women do these tasks around the home. Not just their own mums but on TV etc. On some level they believe it to be women's work and they are doing a favour to their partner if they help around the house. Eurghh.

I don't know the answer why but the solution is clear, women need to stop putting up with it, don't go in saying "he will change" etc Women need to get into the mind frame (and reality) of If he expects me to be his servant then he doesn't respect me and doesn't see me as an equal. Why would anyone want to stay with/have children with someone like that?

*I'm not putting this on women here btw, I'm just saying lets not allow this to happen. Control our own destiny

In my experience women who have low standards or low self-esteem end up with useless men. They end up trying to please them so much that instead of standing up for what they want they just become doormats.

A huge amount of men have been raised in families where the Mother just does everything. A huge amount of men see no reason to challenge that because, lets face it, if you could get away without sorting skittery pants into laundry piles, you would do.

You can't blame one side or the other; parents need to teach all their children to contribute equally, to challenge the status quo. And that's not just female parents; male parents model the behaviour their children are likely to imitate as adults, so if they want to see a change they need to change their own actions.

When DH and I met he was inept. That wasn't my job to fix, nor was it my job to mollycoddle him, so he grew up and worked out how to do shit for himself.

His Mum thinks I'm an arsehole because he does 'woman's work' about the house. I maintain that anyone who doesn't teach their child to operate a washing machine simply because he has a penis in his pants is an arsehole. I guess that's a stalemate, but I know which of us is more the martyr and it's not me.

@fudgebrownie2019 my husband was the same! Although I was enabling it also. Until one day I snapped. Now he contributes as much possible- team work!

Do you think this generation are taking away the kids ability to look after themselves? I know a parent was horrified when I told her my 11 year old boy was changing his own bed sheets 🤔

I’m not sure if it’s a generational thing but my fiancé (brand new one which is why I’m being a dick about saying it ;) ) and all my friends husbands and partners really do their fair share of stuff around the house. I have lived with a few men and they could be a bit useless about stuff but no more than I am (ie I am utterly unable to remember birthdays and buy cards appropriately). On the whole, we always shared the household load and it was never expected that I would mummy them.

Perhaps it’s a demographic thing but it makes me sad to see that some women on these boards put up with that behaviour from men when I have genuinely never encountered it.

@teddybear45 There are women who's self-esteem has been glowing until they met the man- married him or moved in with them. He then pulls it out of her. My father would have said "you need to live with someone before you marry them because that's when true colours come out"

Dads need to step up and be healthy male role models.

I don't know how they can live with themselves treating women like servants, I honestly don't. That's why I disagree with the 'enabling' narrative. You couldn't pay me enough to treat the person I love live a housemaid!

Like a housemaid

It doesn't help that an awful lot of men cannot take critism. They've grown up as little princes, then have never had to fight for a voice in the work space like so many women have. Hence the deflection of any critism as 'nagging' or similar

@fotheringhay You would think that but many of men don't really have that level of emotional understanding.

I do believe in enabling to "save arguments" or hoping one day they help/change.

@coldemort that is very true!

I think a lot of the time the depth of the inequality doesn't show until you have children, and it's a bit late then. Two adults living alone have little enough housework that even if one of them does the majority it's not so burdensome that it's a huge issue. The huge amount of extra work that comes with kids, and childcare itself, though, means that if the partner who did less carries on doing the same then it'll be a huge, glaring problem that's likely to make the other partner very unhappy.

I've known a few women who rather liked being a bit of a domestic goddess who 'spoiled' and 'took care' of their partner when it was just the two of them - the trouble is it's not as trivial a thing with children (and the work to be done changes - less lovely satisfying baking, more endless sorting through poo-stained laundry) but at that point his expectations are very much set and they find them very hard to shift.

I find it strange how many women seem to automatically take on things that their husband/boyfriend should do. I mean things like writing Christmas cards to his family or buying his parents' birthday presents. Or making him a packed lunch for work.

I've noticed so many do that and I don't understand it. I understand how women end up doing all/the bulk of laundry, cleaning and cooking, as these are things people do for themselves anyway and it may take a while before you realise that you're the one always doing the washing and that your dh never actually does it. But I've seen some posters on here talk about their DH as if he's their child. I just don't understand why or how it happens.

My dp and I both sometimes do things for each other that we don't have to, i.e. he has booked me a doctor's appointment before and I have made him lunch for work before. But it's not a regular occurrence and neither of us expect the other to do those things. I don't understand why some women seem to run themselves ragged doing this kind of stuff as if they have to.

I don't understand why some women seem to run themselves ragged doing this kind of stuff as if they have to.

Again, I think some of it starts off as a novelty, and turns into a chore.

But women do get judged much more harshly on things like cards being sent or the state of the house, which is also why they take it on much more often. It's not irrational to start doing a task because you know you'll be the one blamed if it isn't done - but it isn't fair, either.

I try so hard to just let my husband fail until he learns how to do it. And for the most part, he's pretty good at stepping up but I do find it really hard to step back when there's something I know (because I've done it more often) and he is busy making all the mistakes I made. But then even if I do say something he gets very defensive and banishes me from the area!! He's so stubborn it drives me mad.

His parents are quite traditional and I definitely see misogyny in his dad and I think that subconsciously that's where it comes from in him.

Society / his upbringing has conditioned him to believe that some things are beneath him - but aren't beneath women ie me. He will argue against that until he's blue I the face as it's a horrible truth but the evidence is there.

My SIL and Brother have this nailed though. She gives no fucks about being judged / societies expectations of her which I think looks so freeing!! DB does all the cooking and they seem to have a very balanced mental load. Mind you, she's pregnant with their first so it will be interesting to see if she can maintain this once the baby is here and the gendered roles are laid bare!!

Mind you, she's pregnant with their first so it will be interesting to see if she can maintain this once the baby is here and the gendered roles are laid bare!!

What's the plan for who is taking leave etc when the baby is here? I think mat leave - which, to be clear, I definitely think is a good thing! - is the huge crystalliser of domestic inequality. Women does everything because she's home, man finds that his life is actually easier than pre-baby and gets used to that, woman either goes back to work and finds she's doing everything else on top, or she stays home and he gets more and more used to the idea that everything domestic is her domain.

I read that there is a difference between men and women in the amount of work that they do around the house, but after they have children then even couples who shared jobs fairly equally, often revert back to traditional gender roles after they become parents.

I have a theory on this, part I think is people revert back to what their parents did. So if their parents were traditional then they have in their head that a 'mum's role' is more in the house.

I think the set up of our paternity leave doesnt help. The take up of shared paternity is 2pc or something. Men only get 2 weeks unpaid leave if they're lucky and typically with a long labour and hospital stay, only just over a week is spent with their baby. Looking after the baby predominantly becomes the mums job. The man just doesnt realise how hard it is. And therefore expects her to do house stuff as well. The mum has had a career break and then seems to sacrifice her career to go part time since she is the primary carer. Then because she is at home more and the man now earns more he sees his job as being more important and contributing more to the family so the woman has to do more house work to compensate. The gender pay gap also massively increases once women have children.

I think if there was a use it or lose it option for men or the secondary carer to have some paternity leave, or companies changed culture or their paternity policies to encourage men to take more leave, this would help a lot.
In couples I know that did this, the split in workload and childcare is a lot more 50 50.

I do know a fair number of men who have condensed or part time hours though so maybe things are changing