Most women and quite a few useless men...

[rainydays5]

I suppose my AIBU is, to think that quite a few women put with so much crap from men but when they eventually cut the cord and move on, the men become confused as to why their relationship has failed. When the women finally gives up mothering the adult man child (in a sense)

This is NOT a bashing thread. Im jus curious of the males psyche. What I have noticed quite common are, women talking about their partners not stepping up? Not that long ago a friend of someone I know is left confused as to why his partner has jus upped and left.. they have a 1 year old DS. From what I know it was due to his behaviour- not doing his part as a parent or cleaning up after himself. Expacting her to do it 🤔 She did speak to him about it but he didn't listen.

Why do most men (not all) think that family life is down to the women to maintain and structure? Why do you choose not to listen when your wife/partner speaks to you?

"It's probably because most of these men grew up seeing women do these tasks around the home" that may have been true for my generation to a degree, but it's not true I don't believe for those aged 35 and under who appear to me (both from mn and other online forums and in real life) to be among the WORST for being lazy Sod's!

I don't necessarily agree household tasks should be split down sex lines - jobs women do, jobs men do - but at least for my parents generation (in their 70's) and earlier generations this meant that the men did at least pull their weight!

The situation we have now is that an awful lot of "traditionally male" household jobs have disappeared (no more need to build fires or clean chimneys for example), been automated or its become forgotten that they were seen as "male" jobs (eg managing finances).

But the men have used all this as an excuse to do sod all!

There's also the issue that it's WRONGLY believed that men of older generations never did certain things - eg childcare. My own experience (and I've done a little research into this which supports it being true) is that while older generations of men didn't really "do" the baby/toddler stage necessarily (although the perception they did NOTHING at this stage is also wrong) they DID look after older children when not at work, they did things like help with reading and homework, being physically active (because "sport" was seen as a "man's thing") teaching them things like cycling, swimming, climbing, making rope swings, making simple woodcrafts etc certainly families were bigger then too for many reasons so it wasn't practical to expect the wife to supervise all the children.

My own father and grandfathers as well as working in manual jobs (as did my grandmothers - this idea of the "traditional" sahm was NEVER the case for working class families! The women had to work too) also at home did:

Home & garden (if they had one) maintenance and any DIY required - keeping the structure of the home in good repair, regularly doing things like clearing guttering depending on seasonal requirements, fixing broken items, building furniture, painting & decorating on a regular basis, lawn mowing, weeding etc, growing food...

Car maintenance (again if they could afford) - regularly checking oil, water, tyre pressures etc, replacing air filters, repairs as needed - now cars are designed in such a way most regular maintenance can only be done by a mechanic with specialised equipment!

Household admin - managing the finances (I still have really strong memories of my dad and granda's weekly updating a "cash book" and balancing everything and working out eg if a holiday could be afforded that year), making sure things like insurance and guarantees were up to date and cover maintained, that any debts were being paid

"Heavy" jobs - it was considered gentlemanly not to expect your wife to do heavy lifting, especially if she were pregnant at the time (my ex's own dad put a rocket under him when at 6 months pregnant the in laws were visiting and he saw ex let me carry a very full basket of wet washing to the line!), he and the men in my family saw it as their responsibility to carry groceries (even if only a case of meeting their wives at the supermarket door once the shopping was done), suitcases, laundry to the line, coal/wood in for the fire, and hoovering (this one I've mentioned before as surprising me until my gran that was telling me challenged me to try and use her ancient Hoover - weighed a bloody ton!), putting things away in the attic

So the false perception that some men seem to have that women do all household & childcare tasks is frankly bullshit!

Yes parents need to quit raising their kids like this (and I see THIS a lot on mn too - I've even seen the SAME posters who say they wouldn't put up with a man who didn't pull their weight or are already exasperating at having ended up with one on other threads regarding DC doing chores and they have sons and they're doing everything for them! Yet they don't see the irony!) and women need to stop agreeing to be paired with and create families with these lazy men.

I've been to all intents and purposes single for 16 years. Many reasons but a big one IS that I am all too aware of how LAZY my generation of men are! And like fuck am I giving up my valued independence to be a bloody doormat for some man!

"Do you think this generation are taking away the kids ability to look after themselves?" Yes!! But that's almost a whole other thread!! I've been called callous and cruel on here for the fact dd could do her own laundry from around age 12.

"It doesn't help that an awful lot of men cannot take critism. They've grown up as little princes, then have never had to fight for a voice in the work space like so many women have. Hence the deflection of any critism as 'nagging' or similar" totally agree! I genuinely love that meme

"You call it nagging I call it do it the first fucking time I asked"

But admittedly I do sometimes have same issue with dd, but it doesn't last, she rails against me at first then 5 mins later comes and apologises and agrees she should have done whatever when asked.

"I think a lot of the time the depth of the inequality doesn't show until you have children" I agree with this. My ex was pretty good until dd was about 6 months old at which point he seemed to think the "hard part" was over and started to slide into expecting me to do everything! Things came to a head when he moaned at me for not reminding him that HIS car insurance needed renewed - I basically lost it with him and told him he'd better get his act together or fuck off! He did improve after that but quite honestly with poor grace and I wasn't impressed. A couple years later he cheated & we split and I really don't think he ever really wanted to be a dad, the irony being he now has 6 kids! I have heard on good authority though that he's still a lazy sod and wife 2 does pretty much everything to do with the kids and home - even though she's a better paid job than him! Ah well, karma!

I did have a friend at one point who worked long hours (nurse) with a dp who only worked part time (never did find out why) and she was STILL doing ALL the household and childcare stuff! At one point her sister was visiting them and she steamed into the dp for being a lazy sod! He did improve for a short while (3-4 months) but then slid back, at which point the sister in response to my friend moaning about this to her said that she needed to decide, either put up & shut up ie accept that is how he is but stop moaning about it or do something about it - either get him to pull his weight or get rid! She put up for a couple more years but then snapped (after having a 3rd dc with him!) and booted him. She says now she wishes she'd given him kick up arse much earlier but her sister and I (who knew him from when she met him) pointed out he'd ALWAYS been lazy so why did she think he'd change?!

People do NOT change who they fundamentally are!

Grafters always graft, in work they're the ones that during quiet periods will always find SOMETHING to do, and lazy Sod's are ALWAYS lazy.

Totally agree that the imbalance with mat leave leads to entrenching of unequal ideas. In countries where parental leave is more equal the balance of how a household is run is generally more equal too.

Equal and mandatory paternity leave would make so much - not just at home - more equal.

Do you think this generation are taking away the kids ability to look after themselves? I know a parent was horrified when I told her my 11 year old boy was changing his own bed sheets

My 15 year old son thinks it's hilarious that his best friend doesn't know how to turn on the washing machine

I think we're doing good jobs!

They don't want to do it and society gives them a much easier ride than women if they don't do it. So they get away with it.

See also: parenting.

@StCharlotte

Since it became virtually impossible to buy a house on one salary, most women have had to go out to work. We don't get to have it all but we do get to do it all.

So much for having choices eh? Thank you Germaine Greer

Umm, how is germaine greer responsible for the rising house prices and cost of living?

You couldn't pay me enough to treat the person I love live a housemaid!

Exactly. Treat others how you would expect to be treated and all that. If your "partner" expects you to be his servant but not the other way round, what is he actually saying to you? He's saying "I am more important than you, I have less respect for you"

Some men want to hang on to their 'privilege'. Though mainly the stupid ones.

lets face it, if you could get away without sorting skittery pants into laundry piles, you would do.

^

Thing is, women don't and wouldn't. They'd help. Or do it themselves. Men don't.

I've started not folding DH'S underwear and instead started sticking it in a laundry basket next to his side of the bed because I'm past giving a fuck. It's been there at least 3 weeks. It's just not a priority for him. But playing stupid video games is.

Disclaimer, not all men / women etc.

I just think there’s fundamentally a power imbalance between men and women. “We” let “them” treat us badly because we’re scared of them walking away than they are of us leaving.

In almost every couple I know, the woman has the been the driver for children AND the one more interested in caring for them. Whether that’s innate or because we get a 9 month head start, or simply societal influence would be a long debate.

This puts us in a weaker position.
We need a man to get pregnant.
Sure, we can have a lot of one night stands til it happens, but economically it’s much better to have a man. And we want a family for our child. (again - happy to read the view that’s societal influence!)

Once we’ve got the family, we’re probably financially disadvantaged. We lose power. So how exactly do we force men to pull their weight?

I’m in my 50s. My dad was my primary career for a few years after he had a breakdown. Even before, I saw him cook and clean, and he was more emotionally available and active with me than my mother. I’ve been married twice - to the lazy entitled fucker type, and to the totally equal type. I’m personally finically stronger than my husband.

So I’m not say all men / all women.

But I think bottom line, in general women want more from men than vice versa, so men have the power - and a lot of them abuse that.

I think a lot of women make a rod for their own backs. Having children too soon in the relationship is a big one and then ‘oh shock horror’ the bloke isn’t stepping up.

I think it’s risky having children at all as women are still expected to do the majority of the childcare and make the biggest sacrifices for parenthood while the man’s life for the most part remains unchanged (it’s also easier for them to walk away).

Give the kids a miss I say and have an easier life because it’s not worth it from what I can see!

It’s the whole thing about ‘helping around the house’ that describes the problem. Maintaining your own living environment isn’t helping, it’s just what you have to do if you don’t want to starve to death in dirty rags in a shit hole. Helping suggests it’s the woman’s job, and the man is doing her a favour/taking a supporting role/being generous.

So many times on here we see ‘DH is great with the kids, he plays with them and changes nappies.’ Well yeah, he’s their dad, that’s his job, it’s kind of baseline.

Let me ask, how many women get called amazing for doing half housework, half cooking and half of childcare? Men get praised to the heavens for doing a fraction of what women are expected to do. Mum and dad both work ft, yet dad is amazing for contributing equally at home where as mum’s contribution is hardly noted. Go figure.

@whatisthisfuckery YUP!!

I never understand why women marry men who aren't fully functioning adults, who understand they are jointly responsible for their home life and so all tasks/admin/etc should be fairly split.

It wouldn't even cross my mind to date someone who expected me to do the majority share of running the household, let alone marry such a waste of space. How can you be sexually attracted to a manchild?

My cousin can't go away for two nights without having to leave meals portioned up in the fridge for her husband. He's managed to convince her it's funny and endearing and she loves telling people. It's embarrassing.

Yes, women seem to derive some sort of security if they do everything for their man, not realising that he might decide to just up and leave anyway, at which point she’ll turn herself inside out wondering why, when she did everything for him.It’s the same in every walk of life, women are taught to believe that if they do everything right they won’t suffer any maltreatment from men. Don’t wear tarty clothes, walk alone at night or lead him on or you might get raped; Don’t make a fuss or you’ll be seen as difficult; don’t question at work or you won’t get promoted.

It’s all bollocks though, because even if a woman obeys all of the rules she’s still at risk, because the power to prevent the thing she dreads the most isn’t in her hands. It’s all a lie and a way to keep women in their place while the men still hold all the cards..

It’s all bollocks though, because even if a woman obeys all of the rules she’s still at risk, because the power to prevent the thing she dreads the most isn’t in her hands. It’s all a lie and a way to keep women in their place while the men still hold all the cards..

Of course it is, women as a whole need to change the way they look at these things. I would rather be single than live with someone who expects me to be their slave, have a bit of fucking respect for yourself atleast!

It wouldn't even cross my mind to date someone who expected me to do the majority share of running the household, let alone marry such a waste of space

Many men say and do all the right things until kids come along and that’s when they start to back off.

Interesting thread. I know I do some things in the birthday present/visiting arrangements line for DH's family because I like them, so I would feel sad if they didn't get a present (especially children) or if they thought we didn't want to see them (he does want to see them but is lazy about arrangements).

I have also noticed that when we are around DPs or DPILs, DH does way less than normal - especially his own parents. And yet he doesn't start doing the tasks my DDad and DFIL do either. Drives me bonkers and leads to rows.

Basically I feel like I have to work hard for any semblance of equality and yet DH does a lot more than most of my friends' husbands.

@TequilaMockingBird my friend has 3 boys and a girl. The child's father can't cope so she needs to send 2 of her kids to someone else and his mum or her mum need to help him put the other 2 to bed. He literally done NOTHING! He won't even push a trolley in tesco. I actually can't go to her house because I get so frustrated with his stupidity and ignorance- he's only 36!

And this has been much more obvious since we had a DC as there is more work and less time.

@phiney how do you discuss this with him? What's his reasoning?

My husband is not a good listener. He hears 'nagging' and it's not until i'm in tears and screaming that he realises how insulting and disrespectful it is to assume all of these responsibilities fall to me simply because i have ovaries. When we got together we were equal human beings but something about having children has flicked a switch in his head which turned me into 'mother' and overseeer of the entire household. Sexist pig. Anyway. I love him. Hes getting better. Its just the way hes been conditioned.

@managedmis

I've started not folding DH'S underwear and instead started sticking it in a laundry basket next to his side of the bed because I'm past giving a fuck. It's been there at least 3 weeks. It's just not a priority for him. But playing stupid video games is.

I humbly suggest that not giving a fuck would be not picking up, washing, drying, transferring upstairs or doing anything at all with his pants! He's a grown man. I have never washed my DH's underwear for him! Get a laundry basket each and leave him to it.

I've known a few women who rather liked being a bit of a domestic goddess who 'spoiled' and 'took care' of their partner when it was just the two of them

I have a couple of friends like this and I really don’t get it. Never worked outside of the house. Would bore me rigid

He will not admit he does it, rainy days. An example would be that he never gets up with DD at his parents'. She's a natural early riser needs entertaining/keeping quiet for 2 or 3 hours before his parents wake up. I feel this is really unfair as I spend visits needing to go to bed extra early or feeling tired and also feel it would be rude to ask for the heating to go on at 5.30am but he could ask and he wouldn't be as bothered by the cold anyway. At home we would take turns or let her watch TV (she's nearly 7) but I can't leave her roaming round PILs house on her own.