To think the back to 60 campaign is grabby

[Neaoll]

It's been known about for a long time that state pension ages would be equalised.

State pension is just unsustainable, it was never supposed to be something people claim for 20-30 years. Was for people that had a hard time so they didn't starve to death in their last few years. Now it's a top-up to the richest part of society. It should have been linked with life expectancy a long time ago.

I'm in my 40s and dont expect to ever get a state pension. I've been contributing to my private pension ever since I worked to support myself.

Today 00:07 Iamthewombat

“I am confused by @Ilovemypantry I’m afraid (which of the pro-Back to 60 lobby will be next to tell me that I ‘lack comprehension’ or a similar “you must be thick if you don’t agree with me!” insult, I wonder?).

She retires at 57. She is now 63. So she retired seven years ago, AFTER the acceleration of the equal pension age moving her retirement age to (say) 66.

If you were going to retire, and your retirement plans were based on the state pension arriving on the stroke of your 63rd birthday, wouldn’t you, you know, check that you were going to get your pension then?”

The above post sums it up. Utter sense of entitlement.

I’ve feel strongly that women have a responsibility to educate themselves about pensions. It’s estimated (and has been pretty widely reported) that a scary proportion of women are financially underprepared for their older age. This goes far deeper than just the state pension qualifying age; I think a lot of women bury their head in the sand and don’t equip themselves with knowledge.

Just among friends and colleagues I’ve seen:

• surprise and shock that working part time for years means their occupational pension will take a big hit
• the erroneous belief that they’ll ‘be ok’ because their husband has a good pension deal. No awareness that if he predeceases them then they’ll just get a fraction of it. Seemingly little awareness that statistically their husband is likely to predecease them too.

And the above points relate to intelligent women. It’s not about women not having the capacity to understand. It’s more the case that it’s more convenient to avoid the reality of pensions.

And of course, the posts continue on MN from women saying they won’t work because childcare costs will wipe out most or all of their income... no thought given to the fact that just keeping their pension going is probably worth working for. Plus of course the undeniable fact that remaining in the workplace, even if you drop to part time temporarily, means you’re far more likely to maintain or improve your earning in the future.

I’ve said already on this thread that people in the same circumstances will make different choices. I just think there are still, in 2019, a scary amount of women who are burying their heads in the sand when it comes to their long term financial security.

There’s a lot of pension envy on this thread .....ignoring the fact that if you’ve paid into a pension fund then you are entitled (yes, I use that word...ENTITLED) to receive a pension in return.

@Ilovemypantry I am lucky that I took early retirement from my CivilService job seven years ago and receive a monthly pension which I can just about manage on

Hang on a minute..you were able to retire at 57!
You do realise that most women and men do not have that option?

My retirement/ pension age as a former teacher was 60 (it was sooner when I joined the profession- at one stage it was 55.) My DHs retirement age has always been 65. We are both graduate professionals.

I don't suppose you realise that it's all the folks who have to work to 65 and who are paying tax to enable you to take your pension early (and it being enough to live on.)

Why should you have the luxury of early retirement when others don't and still expect a state pension on top of that sooner than other people?

Your civil service job was no doubt desk based and quite cushy so no reason why you could not have carried on till 60, 63, 65, whatever. It was your choice to retire.

Your pension was clearly pretty generous too ( a factor of public service roles) which enabled you to be able to live on it at 57.

@Ilovemypantrye It's not pension envy at all- it's pointing out that civil service / local government pension schemes are usually far more generous than those in commerce and private organisations.

Why should you have been allowed to retire at 57 and live off your pension when people outside the public sector can't? They are still working to pay for your pension. The ratio of what you put in through contributions and what you are getting out as a pension depends on other people funding it through taxes.

Today 08:08 Ilovemypantry

‘There’s a lot of pension envy on this thread .....ignoring the fact that if you’ve paid into a pension fund then you are entitled (yes, I use that word...ENTITLED) to receive a pension in return’

Oh the irony! YOU are the person coming across as bitter and entitled.

You are getting what you’re entitled to: your civil service pension and the state pension at the revised age. The govt has never promised anyone that they’re going to receive XXX amount on XXX date. When you’re talking about funding from the state it’s entirely changeable, dependent on many complex factors... economy, changing demographics....

And surely you realise the same applies to a certain extent with occupational pensions? Presumably you saw your contributions increase over the last few years you paid in, without getting anything more out?

Working in education I’ve seen my contributions hiked up from, goodness, around 6 % to 8 % to 10 % to around 12 % - without getting anything more out. Where have you been while the pension reforms have been going on?

Finally the absolute irony of someone who by their own admission has worked part time (and therefore only paid part time NI contributions) for around 20 years before retiring 7 years ago, whinging that they are ‘entitled’ to be getting their state pension early... Jesus, you couldn’t make it up.

@JinglingHellsBells
I was offered early retirement because the Civil Service wanted to get rid of people at the time. The pension I receive is pro rata, obviously not as much as if I’d worked on to normal retirement age. My lump sum was also pro rata (yes, I got a lump sum too, shock horror!).
I don’t know why I have to keep justifying the fact that I’m getting an occupational pension...I paid a lot of money into it.

And also @Ilovemypantry if your part time job allows you now to take a pension at 57 and live off it, count yourself bloody lucky!

Your pension far outweighs the benefits of those in the private sector, manufacturing, industry roles (as they are the people generating the wealth to pay for public sector pensions).

@Ilovemypantrye It's not pension envy at all- it's pointing out that civil service / local government pension schemes are usually far more generous than those in commerce and private organisations.

But public sector/local government pay is not. I worked in the public sector and retired (voluntary early exit scheme) at 58 having worked for 38 years full time. 60 was the age you could get your pension, but for anyone who joined after a certain point public sector pension age has now been brought into line with state pension age. Which the government can push back as they wish.

@Acciocats

Yep, you’re absolutely right...I AM bitter and entitled.

@Ilovemypantry I completley understand severance pay/ redundancy but the fact is I am sure that had you NOT been able to live off your pension you could have opted to stay at work. Are you saying you took voluntary redundancy?

Also at 57, you were perfectly capable of getting another job! I changed careers at 55 and for the last 9 years have done something else!

No one is saying you’re not entitled to your occupational pension. And obviously your pension is actuarily reduced because a) you worked part time for about 20 years and b) you chose to retire at age 56. You’re getting the occupational pension to which you are entitled.

You will also get the state pension to which you are entitled. Governments can and do make changes to taxes, national insurance contributions, benefits and yes, the state pension. Pension reforms, along with welfare reforms, have been talked about, publicised and happening for years now. Personally I think anyone who relies on the state to provide for them whether through benefits or the state pension (unless of course they are absolutely unable to provide for themself) is nuts.

But public sector/local government pay is not.

That's the point. The perk of local government work has always been shorter working weeks ( far fewer hours than many jobs), generous holidays, flexi time, the option to add extra holiday by working more hours in a month, (currently , a relative of mine can add 2 days to weekend if they do all their hours over fewer days), AND earlier retirement . And all paid for by those creating the wealth in the country and unable to retire early.

@Acciocats
Also, I am not whinging about not getting my state pension “early”, I’m whinging about not getting it when I should have been.

@Ilovemypantry Why are you bitter? You are enjoying your retirement at an age when many / most people are not.

You clearly have a GOOD pension or you would never have been able to live on it now after only 20 yrs of part time work.

You are in a bubble and clearly have no idea of how other people's pensions work.

You are deluded and have no inkling of how you are fortunate.

Why didn't you get another job at 57? That is young- your life expectancy is around 88 as a now 63-yr old.

Laziness and entitlement.

@JinglingHellsBells
No, I took early retirement, not voluntary redundancy. It was offered, I took it.
You changed careers at 55 and have done that for 9 years...good for you.

The facts are a bit lost on you, aren’t they?

Well in that case Ilovemypantry, I ‘should have been’ getting my state pension at age 60 because until I was well into my 30s that was the age I ‘should’ have got it.

Can I also keep paying NI contributions at the rate that existed when I first started working? Because after all that was the ‘deal’ then?!

(Addressed to @Ilovemypantry)

(That’s in reply to ilovemypantry post at 08:35)

Ok so as a nurse I'll need to get a 2nd Career? I'm mid 40's with a very heavy nursing job and I'm expected to work till 67.
I'll prob be dead by then! Maybe that's what the government is hoping for

Also, you do know that ‘early retirement’ and ‘voluntary redundancy’ amount to pretty much the same thing? Which, in the public sector (and as an ex-senior civil servant I speak from knowledge) is ‘losing some dead wood’.

The point is @Ilovemypantry that you clearly have no idea of how other people live re. pensions.

You took early retirement. So you could afford to do so. That in itself is incredible after only 20 yrs p/t work. I don't think you realise that your contributions to your pension would not buy you your current pension- it's being funded by people still working.

You could at any time from then to now have worked if you needed more income. You could still work today.

But you don't need more income. You are just being greedy and expecting the state to provide for you and are throwing your toys out of the pram because the rules around SP changed (at a time when you could have chosen to work elsewhere or not take early retirement.)

You are coming over as out of touch with the real world.

@jobbymcginty
At last! Someone who understands 👏. Yes, of course this is what the government are hoping for.

Why couldn’t you change career, @jobbymcginty? Serious question. I worked for a FTSE company that, amongst other things, operated call centres. The older recruits were hands down the best: professional, reliable, calm, experienced.

You just have to decide. Do you want to stay in nursing after (say) 55 to keep building up NHS pension entitlement, in which case you accept the more tiring aspects of your role that you may not want to keep doing at 67, or do you move to a less physical role with a worse pension? Your choice.

I’m out of this thread now, it’s sending my blood pressure up trying to justify my existence to individuals who are clearly upset that I’m getting a pension THAT I’VE PAID INTO ALL MY WORKING LIFE 🤦‍♀️. Byeeee...