Should I admire this teacher for searing honesty or AIBU to be peeved?

[minisnowballs]

DD1 is in Y8. Loved her first tutor at her big girls' school. She left halfway through last year. Got a new one. He left too. The class has a few interesting characters in it who have constantly made it hard to learn. Incessant detentions seem to make little difference.

Roll on to this year and we're invited to an evening to meet new tutors. DD1 has said is unimpressed with new one as she doesn't do anything with them (literally just leaves them to read or chat). She's had a few typical Y8 girls issues but doesn't want to say anything as doesn't think teacher can cope with it.

I walk up to meet new tutor. I say Hi 'I'm snowballs' Mum'.She replies "I'm sorry, I don't really know who your daughter is. The class is very boisterous and I don't have time to get to know the quiet ones who hang around the radiators'.

Now that's honest, and I get that she's got a difficult tutor group. But surely the school should have dealt with this by now, or given her some help when she's struggling? Also, I really wouldn't have described my DD as quiet - she's not rude, but she's pretty tenacious when she wants something and a keen debater. If she's not talking, it's because she's being given no opportunity to do so (and has also been sandwiched between the worst of the girls who are so 'boisterous').

AIBU to be pissed off? It's a large girls' comprehensive, if that's helpful to know. Oversubscribed. Good reputation. School prides itself on behaviour management.

Children who are quiet and blend into the background are categorised as ‘radiator children’

Never heard this one. I’ve only heard ‘wallpaper children’ in my teaching career. I would consider it a bit of a failing on my part to have a wallpaper child in my class (although admittedly I teach primary). Yes you get to know the loud ones first, but you need to make it your business early on to get to know something about all your form. The quiet well-behaved one might well need looking out for just as much as the one with the alarm bell behaviour.

Thanks all. It's not an awful school - and I don't think I will move her. Her subject teachers are great, I like the curriculum in general, and she has lots of friends (generally not so many in her tutor group). Academically she is doing well - I don't think Y8 is a lost year for her so far from that point of view.

I've now spoken to the Assistant Head (sent an email and she called me back, and then spoke to the tutor and called me back again) within three days so I'm happy with the response.

She says the teacher is new to the school, and the SLT will start to spend more time in that classroom and on learning walks to check she's coping with the class - and to find out why she hasn't done any of the tutor-led activities that are planned for every class (the school does its specific 'study skills' training in tutor time and apparently it just hasn't happened)- they've just been left to get on with reading and shouting at each other.

The assistant head does know my daughter (she's been showing parents round the school all week for open mornings). She noted that DD is scarcely a shrinking violet. The staff have been doing training on ensuring there are no 'invisible children' and will step this up. They will run a 'student voice' session with children from this tutor group in a couple of weeks time to check everything is working again.

As I said, I'm not expecting the tutor to know everything about DD so soon - it was just the general impression she couldn't manage the class, and perhaps needed help. DD2 fancies a different school anyway but has no guaranteed place there - so we will see what happens. I think I'm glad I said something, but feel guilty. But if these children aren't getting the study skills training they are supposed to have and now do, I guess that's something.

YANBU. For starters, it's entirely possible to learn the names of every kid in your form within a week or two. We're well beyond that now. Yes, this can be challenging but it is part of the job to get to know new children asap.

But I would be far more worried about the reason she gave you for not knowing your child. Classroom and behaviour management are also part of the job. There are a large number of techniques for dealing with a challenging class. Not every teacher is good at that, but there's no requirement for you to accept suboptimal teaching for your child just because the class is deemed challenging.

Just don't do what we did and hold off for too long. We were being far too understanding and polite and well-meaning and all we achieved was to prioritise the teacher's professional standing over the needs of our child.

When we finally did complain after a particularly upsetting example of classroom mismanagement, the problem was sorted incredibly quickly. I've no idea what the teacher thought about the whole thing (nor do I care, quite frankly, especially given the state our child was in), but she now uses the techniques consistently that her line manager suggested to her and is by all accounts a much better teacher (I would agree).

Should have checked for new comments before posting mine, OP!

Just seen that you have spoken to the school. That is an encouraging response and sounds very promising. Don't feel guilty though, this is literally your job - to look out for the best interests of your child. Even if it can be awkward or uncomfortable to raise an issue with the school.

YABU.

She is essentially saying your DD is well behaved, hence why her knowledge of her is sketchy. Be happy with that.

Also, whilst it would be nice for the school to support teachers with difficult children, ALL of the classes are like this and it's just not pheasable.

Welcome to upper school. It is NOTHING like primary. This is just the beginning and this if this is all you have to complain about you are blessed.

Is this when they have the register taken? I was in a form group with a lot of rough girls. I was quiet and they called me square. It was bearable because its was only a few minutes each day. We never did any work, read or anything. Just messed about for 10 minutes

For starters, it's entirely possible to learn the names of every kid in your form within a week or two.

In fairness, even the ‘super recogniser* on this thread admits to still getting some names wrong! Let’s give her a bit of a break on this part, even if she was totally out of order for saying what she did and also for not following the study skills program. It doesn’t surprise me though that she was also brand new to the school. I guessed that earlier. I bet she was getting absolutely no support and just left to get on with it all. It’s always a baptism of fire starting in a brand new school where the building, staff and children are unfamiliar. New staff should be mentored. It’s good that the Assistant Head has acknowledged that thy should help the teacher more.

That's very true Chloe.

It's also reassuring that the super name people still get names muddled.

That's one reading of the AHT's comments. I hope it's the right one.

That's one reading of the AHT's comments. I hope it's the right one.

I really hope so too! Probably not if they haven’t helped them so far though.

I think it's offensive. You should at least have got to know who the students in your form are by now; even if you said One of the ones I'm hoping to get to know better.

Can't believe her attitude. Why are they hanging around radiators? Doesn't she get them doing stuff?

I'm a secondary teacher and have a Tutor group. The Tutor you describe sounds lazy to me. I have a seating plan for Tutor time, just like any other lesson, and knew names in about a week and a half.
We have 25 mins per day; one day is Assembly.
Every day we do the register & a prayer (Catholic school) notices, 'On this day in history' fact & a different activity every day: Act of Worship, Numeracy game, Literacy game & we're reading a book together (managing 6 or 7 pages). I have slides so it runs like clockwork.
I still find time for a couple of mins to chat to different students.
I don't know the names of all of the kids I teach yet, but there are 240 of them!

We have 25 mins per day
That’s pretty long for daily form time, to be fair.
But even so, I think many have said that the familiar classroom setting, with a seating plan to repeatedly refer to, is a lot easier than in a parent conference 4 weeks in, with no appointments times to refer to and with lots of other children present too. It’s why Parents Evenings at Secondary are not that early!
Maybe this teacher has done better learning their actual subject classes than you. Who knows. I’m not sure how helpful this ‘I’m better learning at names so I’m a better teacher’ is to the actual issue that this teacher spoke totally inappropriately to the OP.

I think that's poor. DD2 is almost mute at school, especially with teachers (ASD), and her tutor said "DD2 is very sweet. It made me laugh that she immediately found a seat as far away from everyone as she could." That communicated that she understood where she was coming from, even if she wasn't going to engage much.

If a teacher has a seating plan and photos, they can at least say 'X always answers the register politely.' 'Y seems to have a good group of friends.'

i should probably also have said, DD1 has recently had a really quite painful and noticeable brace fitted (quite a complex one). It affects her speech so she's less likely to speak up anyway. So I'm probably more paranoid about her being described as 'quiet' than usual - because it only takes a few 'I can't understand you'..." to make her v quiet indeed

I taught 560 pupils a week plus had a form of 24 that I saw for 10 mins each morning & 10 mins each afternoon.

By the end of the first half term, I was properly confident with about 80% of names, fairly confident with 10% and the remaining 10% of names were dependent on context & who they sat next to. But, by Christmas, all would be fine.

Good that the AH is now on the case. Sounds like the teacher needs some support.

Glad to hear the AH is getting involved - hope their plan works.

However, reading this has made me very glad that dc have vertical tutor groups - max 3-4 kids per year in each tutor group going through from y7-y13. Means that the kids get to know other people throughout the school, the tutor typically only has 4 new faces to add to the group and get to know each year, breaks tricky classes up (particularly if your dd is stuck in lessons with them for kids of the day too), the older kids look out for the younger kids in the group and so on. The tutor still gets to stay with the same group through the years and develop the bond as the go through the school but having the interaction with the other age groups is important too.

I guess there’s an overhead if you have to switch to a new system but once it’s up and running it works really well - can highly recommend it.