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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Should I admire this teacher for searing honesty or AIBU to be peeved?

92 replies

minisnowballs · 02/10/2019 15:55

DD1 is in Y8. Loved her first tutor at her big girls' school. She left halfway through last year. Got a new one. He left too. The class has a few interesting characters in it who have constantly made it hard to learn. Incessant detentions seem to make little difference.

Roll on to this year and we're invited to an evening to meet new tutors. DD1 has said is unimpressed with new one as she doesn't do anything with them (literally just leaves them to read or chat). She's had a few typical Y8 girls issues but doesn't want to say anything as doesn't think teacher can cope with it.

I walk up to meet new tutor. I say Hi 'I'm snowballs' Mum'.She replies "I'm sorry, I don't really know who your daughter is. The class is very boisterous and I don't have time to get to know the quiet ones who hang around the radiators'.

Now that's honest, and I get that she's got a difficult tutor group. But surely the school should have dealt with this by now, or given her some help when she's struggling? Also, I really wouldn't have described my DD as quiet - she's not rude, but she's pretty tenacious when she wants something and a keen debater. If she's not talking, it's because she's being given no opportunity to do so (and has also been sandwiched between the worst of the girls who are so 'boisterous').

AIBU to be pissed off? It's a large girls' comprehensive, if that's helpful to know. Oversubscribed. Good reputation. School prides itself on behaviour management.

OP posts:

m0therofdragons · 02/10/2019 18:03

Amazed by the low expectations mnetters have of form tutors - ours are much more involved and make a real effort to get to know the dc. Dd is a quiet one but her teacher has managed to get to know her. I would be unimpressed although as long as dd was happy I'd not say anything further.

Bobbybobbins · 02/10/2019 18:07

I'm a secondary teacher with a form group and personally I think it's more important to get to know them quickly than some of my subject classes. As pp said I am the first point of contact for their parents.

Drabarni · 02/10/2019 18:09

The teacher should know who she is by now. There's no excuse at all.
You wouldn't expect her to know anything else, especially if the child is quiet but 30 names, shouldn't be a problem.

WonderWomansSpin · 02/10/2019 18:11

I think it's realistic that she won't know all the DCs yet and I wouldn't be annoyed at her admitting that.
But I'd be a bit at the way she said it. It sounds disrespectful to all the children. They're either 'boisterous' or 'hang about the radiators'. So nothing positive about any of them.
Maybe she'd had a particularly bad day with the boisterous ones.

LolaSmiles · 02/10/2019 18:16

m0therofdragons
Some is low expectations (e.g. oh they should sort themselves at secondary), some is the reality of the situation.

I can tell you loads about every member of my form, from strengths and weaknesses, hobbies, clubs, how they respond when stressed or upset, the little things that make you want to check in because you have that gut instinct that something isn't right, who is having home issues and hitting heads with parents, who's having a rough time, who needs a bit of TLC Vs who likes their space.

I get on really well with parents too and will help them if they get any obstructive situations with subject staff, help them and our SEND department get everything for assessment and so on, even parents calling up to say their DC has been a swine at home and is it just at home or school as well because they're really feeling like they're finding the teen years tough.

But the first year I get them, 3 weeks in I need photos to remind me of names for some of them on the tutor evening (especially where a couple look similar and they look different out of uniform). I don't think that makes me a bad tutor or means I have low expectations.

TheCanterburyWhales · 02/10/2019 18:16

I'd be happy my child wasn't one of the poorly behaved ones, because the class sounds generally appalling

Faffandahalf · 02/10/2019 18:18

I think it was a crappy thing for her to say.

But come on! I’m a secondary teacher. I’ve seen my year 7 form for 15 min for 4 weeks. 1 day they go straight to assembly. The first 2 weeks was a lot of doing tours, going through rules handing out timetables etc.

There is no way I know all 30 names. It’s impossible. I’d love to hear from any teachers who would know! What’s your secret?! It takes me a while. To be fair to me I am part time. Only 3 days a week so thats my excuse!

I find you learn the naughty kids’ names first. Always!
Then the ones who are having specific issues/trouble settling in.
The SEND ones
And then I’m afraid it’s true the quiet regular kids do fly under the radar for a while

Faffandahalf · 02/10/2019 18:22

By the time you get to year 11 with them you’re basically like a 3rd parent (or the only parent depending on the kid )

You have in jokes and fallouts.
I was bringing my lot breakfast every morning and running pretty much counselling sessions every afternoon. You see a side to them teachers often don’t (especially the ‘naughty’ ones). They confide in you and bring you your favourite crisps! They tell you all about the teachers they hate (even when you tell them they really shouldn’t but really you want to know ) and the ones they love.

I love being a FT.
I just won’t know all their names for the first few weeks of the 5 years I have them

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 02/10/2019 18:25

The class is very boisterous and I don't have time to get to know the quiet ones who hang around the radiators'.

That’s pretty shit. It’s unacceptable actually. They’ve been back a month. She should know all her form class by now and why the hell is she letting anyone hang around the radiators? Bell goes, they sit in their seats, she takes the register and looks at their faces when they answer. She sounds like she isn’t coping or isn’t trying.

cricketballs3 · 02/10/2019 18:26

The last time I had a lower school form group I was their 3rd one in 3 years and the form had a mix of characters; in the first month or so I definitely knew the troublesome ones as those were the students I had to deal with the most so whilst yes the form tutor was blunt they were also very honest.

However, give it more time as it isn't too ling before the FT will become far more familiar with all students

LolaSmiles · 02/10/2019 18:26

I agree faff.
I'm still waiting on the secret for learning names, faces and personal details of hundreds of people in a couple of weeks.

Some people have an unusual gift for it (not that I'm jealous), but for most of us we are doing our best to build relationships and it takes a little time.

YouJustDoYou · 02/10/2019 18:29

Jesus, rude much of her?

DoAllMeerkatsComeFromRussia · 02/10/2019 18:30

Yes it will be true.
But saying so is insane! It won't be her fault but it makes her look bad. I can't work out what she'll gain from admitting it, unless she's hoping you'll say something to the head and some of the kids with bad behaviour get moved. But inviting someone to complain about them is suicidal, surely?

thistimelastweek · 02/10/2019 18:38

Surely honesty and professionalism aren't mutually exclusive.
This teacher has managed to sound scathing about both the well-behaved and less so. 'Hanging round radiators ' ? Not what I would consider a positive reflection on good behaviour

Bessica1970 · 02/10/2019 18:41

The form tutor should know their names by now! I admit to not knowing the names of all the students in my subject classes yet (some I’ve only had for three lessons so far), but I see my tutor group every day. I’m doing a settling in consultation tomorrow and I know which ones are arriving late to lessons , what their target grades are, what after school activities they do and whether they are doing homework on time. And I knew all their names by the end of week 1. If the form teacher doesn’t know them, who will notice when someone is having a rough day?

onemorecakeplease · 02/10/2019 18:42

Oh gosh. I'm two days into a teaching placement and I know all my class by name and some of their quirks! There are only 20 but when still.

How long has she been there?

ChiaraRimini · 02/10/2019 18:46

at my My DSs secondary school, each student has a short interview with form tutor at the beginning of the academic year, the day before lessons start, to set personal targets for the year. Do all schools not to that? I'd expect any teacher to form a first impression of the student at that point and be able to follow that up with observations from form time.
Alarm bells would be ringing for me that a teacher who is that unaware of how she is coming across to a parent is lacking in judgement in other areas as well.

ChilledBee · 02/10/2019 18:46

She sounds like she's struggling and is using unprofessional and passive aggressive tactics to express that.

ChloeDecker · 02/10/2019 18:47

I can learn names pretty quickly with a set seating plan and in the same classroom. Outside of the classroom and out of context of the form room, say an evening consultation or parents evening early in the year, that’s when mistakes are made! I really feel for the teachers whose lessons are not at ‘desks’!

SansaSnark · 02/10/2019 18:55

I'm an NQT who's inherited an older form. There aren't quite 30 pupils in the form, and I do know all their names by now- but I teach quite a few of them which helps. There are some quiet ones (or maybe they just don't like me!) who I don't know much about other than their names, though!

There are a few who, for whatever reason, I've got to know quite well, quite quickly, but it is hard when you have 20 minutes 4 times a week (more like 15 when you account for doing the register and packing stuff away)- and I wouldn't say I have much of a relationship with most of them yet.

But when talking to a parent, I'd always phrase things professionally and politely e.g. "I don't know X very well yet, as they are pretty quiet in form time. Would you say that's normal for them?" sort of thing.

I think it's a tricky situation- what do you think you would gain from complaining?

cosytoaster · 02/10/2019 19:20

It's a blunt way of saying it but understandable she doesn't know all the class yet.
Hopefully she's being as bluntly and honest with the parents of the boisterous kids, who presumably she does know.

supersop60 · 02/10/2019 19:36

No, that's bollocks.
It is the form tutor's actual job to get to know the students in the tutor group. The teacher should at least know who she is, even if she doesn't know much about your DD yet.
Subject teachers have it slightly differently and it takes longer to get to know all the students' names because you don't interact in the same way.
Take it to HOY.

Ferretyone · 02/10/2019 19:39

@minisnowballs

Please let a little time elapse and send a reasoned letter [yes] to the school head teacher and - more importantly - to the chair of governors [if such exist] or to the education authority,

manicinsomniac · 02/10/2019 19:45

I'm not necessarily surprised that that's the reality of her situation but I think it was pretty stupid of her to admit it. In that situation you fudge it and bluff for England, surely!

I do think she should at least know the children's names by now but not necessarily know that much about them.

I'm still waiting on the secret for learning names, faces and personal details of hundreds of people in a couple of weeks

I don't know if there's a secret - it's just something you are either good at or you're not.
I teach 300 children a week across the whole school. I know all their names by the time I've taught each class once and I don't forget them. That doesn't say anything particularly good about me except that I remember names and faces easily. I'm no better a teacher than my colleague who is still hunting out photos pre parents evening in March because names just don't stick for her.

Cambionome · 02/10/2019 19:49

I don't normally agree with criticising teachers (I work in a school) but tutors don't necessarily only have 10 - 20 minutes per day with form groups. At our school they have 30 minutes per day, which I think is a reasonable amount of time, and they do stuff with their groups ... topics, competitions, presentations etc. They do not just let students muck about.

Should also add that all schools will probably be using SIMS which means that the students photos will be very easily accessible.

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