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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to wonder if dd is turning into a mean girl??

113 replies

SevenOhFour · 01/10/2019 17:55

dd9 has been best friends with 'Sarah' since they were 5 or 6. there has only been the two of them playing together at playtimes and they see each other out of school a lot. in the past 2 years 'jess' has become good friends with my dd, however Sarah and jess don't get on very well, very different personalities whereas my dd is somewhere in the middle.

Sarah I think feels upset that her friendship is now shared with jess and jess has a tendency to try to leave Sarah out. dd has tried to be the peacemaker for a while but in the past 6 months or so she has become a lot closer to jess.

a few weeks ago Sarah's mum text me to say Sarah had come home very upset because the others had been leaving her out at school, I spoke to dd and told her this was unacceptable and under no circumstances should she leave her out, they've been friends a long time.

today sarahs mum text again saying Sarah was crying and saying my dd and jess have been having private playtimes, telling Sarah they wanted it to be just the two of them for a while.

I asked dd about this and she said that Sarah doesn't speak at all to jess, and barely speaks to my dd when jess is there. she agrees to play a game but when they start playing, Sarah just sits there looking miserable or says its boring. when dd asks her what she wants to play, Sarah says she doesn't know or isn't bothered.

I don't know what to do. on the one hand I do not want dd being the mean girl and leaving her friend out, but on the other it seems she has been the peace maker between the two for so long and Sarah is only ever cheerful when its just her and dd. whenever jess is there she moans, is miserable and complains about everything.

my dd is no angel I am not naïve, but it feels like the friendship has grown apart and where dd is closer to jess, sarah doesn't have that with anyone else.

aibu to say she has to suck it up and include sarah even if shes being miserable all the time? its so horrible to be left out, I just don't know what to advise.

what ive suggested so far is that they ask everyone what they want to play, then play, and if sarah is grumpy just get on with playing and if she wants to join in she can. no need to say 'we want to play on our own'

wwyd?

OP posts:

Bluntness100 · 01/10/2019 18:30

There is no way to say they want a private play time nicely. You know this. It's deliberate exclusion.

I think your initial approach is fine. Tell her to include her and ignore the whinging.

Both you and the other mum are hearing two sides to the one story. We all know there is a third.

As your daughter is admitting she is telling Sarah not to play with them. Then it looks like there is an element of truth in what Sarah is saying.

If your daughters justification is enough for that behaviour is your decision. But for me, I'd not allow it, for the simple reason is that one day it will happen to your daughter.

Bluetrews25 · 01/10/2019 18:31

They all need to learn to be fluid and not exclusive, but sadly the nature of little girls seems to be they will do the opposite.
They could do with realising (as could Sarah's mum) that they are not married and are allowed to be with other people!
so relieved I had boys

Original poster

SevenOhFour · 01/10/2019 18:32

@myforbiddenlover I know, and I hope not as im friends with sarahs mum, and our sons are also in the same class and good friends. hopefullt it will sort itself out, I just don't want to look as though I don't care that dd has been mean to her friend

OP posts:

Pinkkahori · 01/10/2019 18:34

I don't think private playtime sounds nice either. If you were in the same coffee shop as an old friend and she refused to chat to you because she wanted a private chat with a newer friend you might understand because you are an adult but it would definitely sting.
I can imagine it being very hard for a 9 year old to hear.

SansaSnark · 01/10/2019 18:35

I think it's tricky. They shouldn't be leaving Sarah out, but equally it sounds like Sarah wants your DD to leave Jess out, which isn't fair either. Your DD is allowed to make new friends, and friendships do change over time.

I would say to your DD that she shouldn't be excluding Sarah with "private playtimes" but equally if your DD and Jess start a game and Sarah isn't really joining in, that's her choice and it shouldn't stop your DD and Jess from having fun together.

I would maybe speak to the class teacher, who might be able to give an outsider perspective on the dynamic. It could be that your DD and Jess are being mean, or it could be that Sarah is being a bit manipulative to get her own way. Or it could just be that your DD and Sarah are naturally growing apart and don't have the maturity to handle it well.

AnnonniMoose · 01/10/2019 18:35

My DD was 'Sarah'. One of the class bullies actively tried to destroy their friendship. 'Ava' was always nice to DD in front of friend, but bullied her mercilessly behind friend's back. Friend couldn't understand why DD was upset and didn't want to play with her when Ava was around. We ended up having to move house and school because of the bullying and Ava dropped friend like a hot potato. Now the friendship has been mostly destroyed, sadly, and DD is heartbroken.

kitk · 01/10/2019 18:36

I think your DD is entirely normal and unless Sarah's mum is your best friend she's behaving quite inappropriately. In your position I'd message the mum and day you've spoken to DD twice about this now, she knows the importance of being kind but her story is a little different to Sarah's and as neither of you are actually in school, it might be worth asking teacher to keep an eye and deal with any isolating behaviour- ie try to entourage them to play nicely or find Sarah someone else to play with. Tell mum Sarah is lovely and you're very fond of her but friendship issues might be best dealt with by school from now on.

OstrichRunning · 01/10/2019 18:37

Tricky. If your dd wants to, I'd maybe let her and Sarah meet up on their own outside of school. Keep it casual but maybe Jess has a strong personality and maybe the friendship between your daughter and Sarah is worth giving a bit of help to at the moment. Maybe that's all it'd take for Sarah to feel a bit reassured - she might then be more confident in school. The way you described her behaviour there just really seemed to me to suggest someone who's feeling very unconfident and insecure atm. My niece was once in Sarah's position and my heart broke for her.

I know we all have to grow up, develop resilience etc but that isn't necessarily incompatible with what I've suggested. I mean if that doesn't work, then fair enough but just now Sarah sounds to be in a pretty vulnerable situation. And they suck, at any age.

jennymanara · 01/10/2019 18:38

Honestly I would let them get on with it,. I think parents often make these kind of situations worse.

Pinkkahori · 01/10/2019 18:40

That can be true jennymanara but I've been in Sarah's mum's position and it's difficult when your child is upset that her friend doesn't like her anymore.

EmeraldShamrock · 01/10/2019 18:41

Tell the DM the friendship has ran its course.
It is tough at that age, my DD lots her bestie this year, A new girl started, they became a group of 3 and the others left as two.
I was relieved it was over. My DD is lonely but she is happier than playing third wheel and is mixing with others more.
It happens be honest with the DM. I know DD's ex besties DM felt awkward about it all, I never mentioned it to her.

Original poster

SevenOhFour · 01/10/2019 18:42

thanks everyone. dd and sarah do see each other at least twice a week outside of school, whereas they don't see jess as she lives further away.

I have told dd that she musnt go off for private playtimes anymore, and should just tell sarah theyd like her to play, but if she starts to be moody about it then to just ignore this.

OP posts:

Justmuddlingalong · 01/10/2019 18:43

You and Sarah's mum being friends muddies the water a bit. But, if your DD is letting the friendship slide, I think you and Sarah's DM have to accept that.

EmeraldShamrock · 01/10/2019 18:43

*lost

OooErMissus · 01/10/2019 18:45

Telling Sarah they want 'private play time' isn't nice - and is always going to seem awful for the person on the receiving end. And their mum!

But I can see how it's come about.

This advice is really good -

When Sarah's mother texts you, you could say that you have asked DD not to exclude Sarah, but that Sarah also needs to be inclusive of Jess.

However, I really think - if you're friends with this Mum, and your boys are friends too, that you should have a conversation about it, rather than handle it over text.

Just explain that your DD has made friends with Jess, who seems like a nice, friendly girl, but that Sarah doesn't seem to like her, and it's making your DD feel very stuck in the middle, trying her best to keep everyone happy, and inevitably failing sometimes.

It's up to Sarah to join in here. She's welcome to, so it's on her. Well, aside from the 'private playtimes', but I suspect they wouldn't be happening if Sarah was being friendly herself, joining in and enjoying everyone's company.

Your DD isn't doing anything wrong here.

Sleepinglemon · 01/10/2019 18:46

I would definitely speak to their teacher about it. Our school would want to nip this in the bud and prevent it becoming unpleasant.

FindaPenny · 01/10/2019 18:48

To be honest I wouldn't be happy with my daughter if she was excluding someone. I always tell my daughter that if someone asks to play she should let them, but if they try to control the game or be mean or sulky or whatever, she has the right to tell them she doesn't like it.

My daughter was in a similar situation but she was the 'sarah'. She didn't cry or moan but was disappointed to be excluded. Perhaps ask your daughter this.... If Jess isn't around does your daughter automatically start playing/partnering up with Sarah again. If she answers yes I do think she is being unfair to Sarah and using her as a kind of back up friend... Sarah is only good enough when jess isn't around.

EmeraldShamrock · 01/10/2019 18:48

thanks everyone. dd and sarah do see each other at least twice a week
This won't last plus it is unfair on Sarah.
It started September last year by February DD was on the outside, her BFF still visited till May.
DD's bestie lives up the street, she played her every day in winter every year, had dinner most day, brought on many days out.
Her new friend doesn't live close.
I like the child but felt she was using DD after school, she hasn't been here in months now.

MyForbiddenLover · 01/10/2019 18:49

I would also encourage your DD to play in large groups at playtime where possible as it minimises this kind of thing from happening and means that no one is left out.

Original poster

SevenOhFour · 01/10/2019 18:51

@myforbiddenlover that's a very wise idea

OP posts:

OooErMissus · 01/10/2019 18:52

Sarah is only good enough when jess isn't around.

But if Sarah is being sulky and moody - despite being asked to join in! - then there's a very good reason why she's 'only good enough' when someone much more amiable isn't around.

The OP's DD isn't doing anything wrong here by widening her friendship circle.

MyForbiddenLover · 01/10/2019 18:53

At my DCs school one of the teachers introduced a brilliant playground game to the kids a couple of years ago. There's no limit on the number of kids that can play and kids from all different year groups play it day after day. Maybe suggest something like that to the school your DD goes to? I drive past the school playground regularly most days and often see almost every child in the playground playing the game at the same time.

desperatesux · 01/10/2019 18:54

Its always easy to say oh these things sort themselves out when your child isn't on the receiving end of it. I can imagine for poor sarah it is a bitter lesson to learn if she has been best friends for years only be be dropped like a hot potato for a newer more fun model - no wonder she is moody
I think though all you can do is insist she is nice and includes Sarah and maybe speak to the other mother re the change in dynamics so she knows you take it seriously too.

Original poster

SevenOhFour · 01/10/2019 18:57

I don't think dd really even wants to be good friends with sarah anymore, shes fed up of the sulking, but (even though I know theres no nice way to say it) she says she tells sarah that her and jess want a playtime of their own sometimes. I have told her that its a mean thing to do but actually I don't know what the correct thing is. she likes playing with sarah when shes joining in but (from what dd says so not necessarily the whole truth) sarah just doesn't even try to get involved, she hangs round with them but moans or stays quiet with a grumpy face, but then she doesn't try to jpoin in with the games even though shes been asked to play with them (and asked what she wants to play, but she just says she isn't bothered)

OP posts:

EmeraldShamrock · 01/10/2019 19:00

Sarah probably isn't been sulky and moody, she is probably really upset.
I am not blaming the young girl's it happens but rip the bandit off put Sarah out of her misery.
Maybe Jess has deliberately pushed Sarah out for months before your DD noticed, you know how it goes when three becomes a crowd.
Do they break up classes each year in the school.
It helps DD got into a different class than her ex
They'll get over it. As long as your DD continues to be friendly and caring, Sarah will find someone else.

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