Please please help me - I'm too fucking shy!

[DirtyBeetie]

I've been to therapy for CBT but I can't progress, it didn't work for me. In fact It made me feel worse! I have cripplingly low self esteem which is probably the cause of it.

I've been subjected to nasty comments for being quiet, I've been picked on because I'm too bloody spineless to stand up for myself. I don't know how if I'm saying/ doing is the right thing. I'm constantly thinking people don't like me, am I annoying them etc

I honestly don't know what to do. I know I need to start small but even small things I can't seem to master. I honestly feel it's ruined my life. I don't even know how I even managed to meet dh who is so understanding of it all and doesn't give a shoot that I'm not a social butterfly but I do. I want to break free from this label.

It’s not shyness it’s self esteem!

I can tell you one thing for sure. Nobody you come across on a daily basis is worth a jot more than you are. It’s as simple as that. None of them are worth a hot less either but that doesn’t seem to be your problem.

I don't know if this helps but I totally feel your pain. I always run previous social interactions through and through my head and convince myself that I said or did something stupid or that so and so made a face or rolled their eyes at me. I have no self confidence and find social situations tough. I actively avoid small talk and arrive at school drop of at the last minute to avoid having to chat to the other mums

I have improved and this is mainly by forcing myself to do things. I forced myself to invite some other mums at a playgroup to come over for coffee, they are now close friends. I forced myself to set up a neighbour's WhatsApp group. That was less successful but it's handy on occasion. I hated doing it. I hated putting myself out there but after I'd done it I felt great.

So my advice Is to set yourself a small target (e.g. invite X over for coffee or a drink after work) mention it in general terms and if they seem receptive suggest a time and date. If it doesn't work out don't take it personally and move on to someone else.

I have learnt that 9 times out of 10 people don't really mean anything by their actions, they are just busy with their own lives. It's like when we worry about wearing the same outfit to another wedding with the same people. If I asked you what someone was wearing you wouldn't know
You are so preoccupied with what you are wearing. Most people are nice but busy. Very few people mean any harm.

So tomorrow be brave and invite someone to something remembering that it really doesn't matter if they say no. If they say no it won't register on their radar and they will forget it ever happened so you literally have nothing to lose by trying.

I am also cripplingly shy. It is painful. I went through a stage recently where I would go bright red and feel ashamed speaking to almost anyone. Luckily things have improved a lot lately. I realised in times of stress and anxiety, it would become much worse. Honestly, antidepressants helped dramatically. CBT helped me challenge my unhelpful thinking that was contributing to my low self esteem.
Also, I've learned that if you are in a conversation with someone, a helpful tool is to have some stock questions to ask them for when you get stuck (generic stuff). People generally like talking about themselves and you might find something in common to expand on. You dont actually have to come up with anything interesting to say.. people like talking about themselves and you'll find you will begin to naturally spark a good conversation by becoming interested in them as a person.
Start doing something nice for yourself every day. You deserve to be valued and that has to start with you valuing yourself.

Thank you all for your messages.

Happyspud I know it's taken me a while to realise that the issue is probably self esteem. You know, I do think every single person whether it be a child or adult is worth more than me. It makes everyone else more important than me and it's like I'm almost scared of people if that makes sense! Like I'm scared to say the wrong thing/ scared of getting them angry or something. I don't know how to change my thoughts. It's all so automatic.

Sunshine93 yes I totally agree with you, I think I need to start small maybe have a small goal to do everyday or something.
I'm starting a new job next week and it honestly is filling me with dread! All the meeting new ppl on the first day and small talk! I feel sick.

Start small and get ideas/lists off the Internet
I’d also keep it manageable eg target for the week shouldn’t be to do a comedy stand up routine it should be something like make small talk with the cashier when you get your morning coffee.

If you have a bad interaction have a little script prepared to tell yourself “that person is having a bad day, it’s rude to take it out on others but it happens sometimes”

Resilience is part of confidence so I would work on that too

All the meeting new ppl on the first day and small talk!

Ask them about themselves and smile a lot you’ll be fine

Hi @DirtyBeetie
DS2 is very shy and has social anxiety. He and I worked out a programme for him to overcome it and it definitely helped. I'll share it.
Every day go for a 10 minute walk somewhere there are people but not crowds.
Day 1 - just glance up and look at people's heads when they walk past.
Day 2 - briefly look into their eyes (fraction of a second)
Day 3 - meet their eyes and smile
Day 4 - meet their eyes, smile and say hi.

The very important aspect of this is that you doing this is the end goal. There is no goal of getting any recognition from them. They are free to ignore you, grunt, walk past, cross the street and you haven;t failed at all. You have succeeded.

Day 5
Do the same as day 4 but when someone ignores you analyse 10 reasons why e.g. maybe they're shy too. Or they;re habving a bad day or they;re in a real hurry etc. Especially do this if you know the person and they weren;t friendly. This trains you not to take it personally. Make sure you get to 10 good reasons why people aren;t always responsive.

Day 6 - Same as Day 5 but in an appropriate social situation just say 'Hi' and ask a simple open-ended question to three people you meet. E.g. at a social event say, 'Hi, how do you know X (the host)?' Plan a simple question.

Again, your goal is not for them to respond in any way - it's just to fulfil your aim of saying that line. If you do, you have succeeded. You're not responsible for other people's reactions. (At one party DS did this and a girl was really bitchy to him. Obviously this upset him a lot. But he'd done what he set out to do. At other events, he's had a brilliant time through just doing this. Now he knows it's possible.)

At your new job, practise just saying: 'Hi, I'm Beetie, the new X. It's my first day.' If they have any social skills, they'll tell you their name and what they do. If they don't, help them out and ask.

If people are friendly and invite you to join them for lunch or on a work social event, you only need to do two things. Smile and say, 'Thanks.' Nothing more. Then go along with them. You don't have to be the life and soul.

I was very very shy and socially awkward until my late 20s. I used to blush and stammer if someone spoke to me and hated being out of my comfort zone. What helped me was to take a good look at myself and people I liked/admired. I realised I did have good points and my family and few friends genuinely liked me. I also realised that I could get through social situations by being interested in other people, listening and asking them about themselves. It took years (I'm in my 50s now) but I'm now very comfortable in any situation and can make friends easily. Think about others before yourself (I was guilty of overthinking everything) - you'll realise you are judging yourself very harshly compared to how you judge others and they probably aren't judging you at all. You will come through it if you want to and you'll more than likely feel uncomfortable doing so but it is worth it I promise!

Hi OP - this idea that you are worth less than others comes from somewhere (childhood?) - if you can afford it, I'd go for actual therapy rather than CBT.

I had a therapist who did EMDR along with some inner child (I know) stuff and it really worked to 'reparent' myself .. I didn't have an abusive childhood - just a slow drip of negativity and a sense that I was always going to get it wrong.. I'm a lot better now although I can't ever see myself inviting a school mum over for coffee just because - but I just did a sterling bit of small talk on the school run and that's enough for me!

New job must mean that you filled in an application form, performed in interviews and were the best candidate! That’s something to absolutely remind yourself of. Meeting new colleagues is difficult and takes time. At the beginning just try to learn a few key names each day, smile and take lots of notes.

Practice breathing techniques to help you relax and focus and never be afraid to say that you are feeling a bit nervous and ask for clarification if you miss something.

Good luck, you may feel nervous, shy, whatever you decide to call it but you are equal to everyone and getting your job proves that. Small steps and goals will help.

And remember not everyone can be the gobby, loud ones. Thank goodness.

What helped me was:

1. actively trying to judge other people, whether I liked them, rather than focusing on whether they liked me

1. Keeping an eye out for other people who were hovering at the edges, and starting by speaking to them

1. Getting involved in things - eg just collecting up the cups at a coffee morning means people need to interact with you. Go out once a week with a bag and pick up litter at your local green area or litter strewn footpath, and every now and again someone will say to you "you're doing a great job there".

Don't expect quick results. I will never be the person who goes round a room making everyone feel welcome and at home, but I'm quite relaxed about talking to individuals that I've never met before, and no longer get that stomach churning if I have to go into a room full of people.

I had crippling shyness when I was younger... (no one would believe it, now... Although I still feel it sometimes!)...

What helped me;

1.Realising EVERYONE has these chattering negative stuff in their head... The trick is to just ignore the chatter and tell yourself...
that's the chatter that always tells me that I'm not good enough, when I'm walking into a new situation....

MOST PEOPLE ARENT looking to trip you up /laugh at you

1. To actively seek out situations where I would HAVE to talk to people. This will get easier as time passes.

1. Have some questions that you can ask thought out before. ... Try some open questions (ones which can't be answered y/n). Eg how did you come to be working at Gromit Office? What do you find to do that's fun nearby?

1. Remember active listening smile/nod

1. Reward yourself that you've actually done this,

Totalwasteofpaper I like the idea of having a script is someone's off/ rude to me. I automatically think it's because of me because of the way I am. That was really really useful. I'll make a similar plan for myself. Trying to change those automatic thoughts is so tough. How is your son now?

Dragonfly3
Yes I bloody think too much! I've heard being socially anxious is a bit because you're too self centred. All your attention is on yourself!

milliefiori thank you so much.

Oops I don't know what happened there . The last bit of the first paragraph was to milliefiori

BirthdayCakes a couple of years ago I went for CBT for my shyness. I could only be given 10 ish sessions. Id read a few books on social anxiety/ confidence etc etc but nothing helped so I thought a CBT therapist might help. I assumed maybe I didn't know what I was doing myself. However after 7 or so sessions we concluded that I my self esteem was non existent and that it would be useful to tackle that. However we only had a couple of sessions left on which we didn't really get to work on my self esteem much and my sessions abruptly ended. I left feeling a bit lost tbh.

Since then I've done a bit of reading and yes my self esteem issues stem from childhood. I've not had an abusive childhood or anything but I think my issue is just the way my family dynamics was and being left out and hence the feeling of feeling worthless. How did EMDR help you? What does it do?

Aaaaw @DirtyBeetie - you are not alone, but part of the problem of cripplingly low self-esteem is feeling that you are, & that only yourself is such a wally etc ...

With CBT, sometimes "it has to get worse before it gets better", & being focused on problems - even from the viewpoint of starting to solve them - can bring up old anxieties & overwhelming feelings.

It may also be helpful to investigate where your 'shyness' comes from. How would you feel about some sort of talking therapy, to help you get a handle on the "why", before perhaps tackling the "how to overcome it" with CBT again?

Let me also tell you ... no matter how confident people look on the outside ALL of us are stark staring mad. We are neurotic, anxious, over-thinking, self-defeating ... really, it's just the human condition.
The trick is to get some good tools from a therapist you trust, & working with these to start making concrete changes to your way of thinking.

I am so glad you have the support of your DH. You are also brave & resourceful to realise you can have more out of life, & want to learn how to do so. With proper help, I promise it is entirely possible, & it also gets much, much easier with age.

Keep looking forward. There is nothing wrong with you - you are simply sensitive, & that is likely to do with past upbringing.

I don't know how to change my thoughts. It's all so automatic.

Ooops apologies, poor editing - the last sentence in my post above was meant to be a quote from OP!

There is some brilliant advice on this thread - MN at its supportive best. :)

@DirtyBeetie - my son is honestly much much better than he was. He has started socialising fairly regularly after a life time of not being invited anywhere because he was always so quiet and shy and hid his lovely personality. He;s come out of his shell a bit.

I was trying earlier to think of some open-ended (not y/n answers) questions for your new work that don;t sound like you;re cornering people/ You could ask:
'Where's the best place for lunch round here?' Or 'What do people do for lunch round here?' That leaves you open to being given some hints, or maybe being asked along to lunch with others.

I found the book Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway' very helpful. I've just looked and there is a short read version that I suspect is just as good as there was a lot of repetition in the book
www.amazon.co.uk/Feel-Fear-Anyway-Quick-Reads?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

CBT is a short term, quick fix for some issues, certainly not for anything long term and debilitating. Your shyness is part of who you are and I agree with others that you need to build up self esteem, slowly. If things go wrong don't automatically think it's your fault, it's not (I used to think like that). Try to work in an environment that is gently encouraging and mix with good people - shy people can be exploited. I hope your new job fits the bill.

You're as good as anyone else and likely better than most!

I'm glad you have a good husband, he can affirm you. If you have a particular interest - anything really, painting, art appreciation even gardening - you could try joining in with a group of like minded people who will be friendly.

I assume you don't yet have children - you may decide not to have them but can assure you that having children gives confidence because you have to be confident for them, so they know they can rely on you and you will speak up for them if necessary. That's for the future though.

Good luck and especially with new job.

This could be me writing this. You are definitely not alone. Sorry I can't advise as I've not overcome it but I just wanted you to know there are others who feel the same.

Hi,

Just wanted to add you are not alone. I feel ashamed as there are so many worse things people are going through but I constantly self doubt, put myself down in my head, have no confidence in myself, constantly paranoid that people are thinking stuff of me! I don't mean this to sound stuck up and oh its a hard life, I have been told that I am ok looking through the years cringe for saying that about myself so I've also felt like people assume I'm stuck up so I've always played the massive down to earth girl, put myself down to appear not stuck up etc when actually I'm quite shy about myself and self conscious and the more I've tried to be relatable to people so they like me I feel like I've actually made myself feel worse. I don't know if it is a form of anxiety or what but I am constantly second guessing myself as a mum and I feel so sensitive and guilty all the time too! Just commenting to say there are more people that feel the same on the inside who you would never be able to tell.

We'll today is my last day at my job. I've been saying my goodbyes to everyone as I've seen them in the office and I just feel really shit when I was talking to one of managers who after saying good luck etc ended it with "I'm sure you'll be fine! It's not like you're quiet and not going to fit in. You're not like that, are you?".

But @DirtyBeetie - it's really good that your manager said that because it shows they don;t see you that way and that all attempts you've made in your current job have been successful. You must come across as confident and outgoing, which tbh is all most people do. Most of us are cringing away inside.