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Original poster

Driving without licence - WWYD

321 replies

Washingyourcurtains · 28/09/2019 20:32

I've recently found out my father in law has never had a driving licence. He's in his 60s and has owned and driven cars all his adult life, just never took his test. I'm shocked about this so would be interested to know what others think and if this is more widespread. Obviously it's a big secret so I can't discuss it with people in real life.

He drives my 2 young children around, sometimes long distances and on motorways as we live the other end of the country and sometimes meet half way to hand over the children and they go to theirs by themselves (which in itself is great for all of us). But I feel really uncomfortable about them being in his car now as he doesn't have insurance (presumably). It will cause a massive issue with my partner if I stop them from being driven by him as he will think I'm overreacting. But what if he has an accident and they are seriously injured and there is no insurance? Should I just overlook it? What would you do.

OP posts:
Teacher22 · 29/09/2019 05:15

This is a complete no brainier. If the FIL has no licence then he doesn’t drive your children. What is your DP thinking that he would defend behaviour which could endanger children?

Whether, OP, you merely forbid your children from being in the car with the FIL or whether you actually report him to the police is up to you. But the man is endangering others on the road too.

Asta19 · 29/09/2019 05:41

The best thing to do is to urge him to take his test. He should pass easily if he’s been driving all these years. I’ve worked in the Courts and everyone prosecuted for driving without a licence is also prosecuted as having no insurance (though they usually don’t receive a separate penalty for that) as it does invalidate the insurance if you don’t have a licence. Any money he is paying in insurance is the same as throwing it in the bin. It’s of absolutely no use.

The problem with him being caught is not so much what might happen to him, the penalty is pretty low for a first time offender. But he will then be disqualified and won’t be able to take a test until after that’s passed. The insurance will then be astronomical and he may well decide to carry on driving and just not bother with insurance. I have seen it numerous times.

BentlyandPalmers · 29/09/2019 05:47

No way would my children be driving with him. Not only that I would report him.

How did you find out? If he’s telling people, someone honest will report him.

LoreleiRock · 29/09/2019 05:52

You can exchange many foreign licences without having to take a road test widdlin, Zimbabwe is a designated country (has an exchange agreement) so your mother was perfectly legal. I never passed my test in the UK, I am still perfectly legal to drive though.

blackcat86 · 29/09/2019 05:55

You need some big changes here. No to the children being driven by him and actually I would be saying no to unsupervised time with PIL if you're in any doubt that they would just ignore you and drive them anyway. I wouldn't give a flying fuck who I upset TBH and I would be reporting him to.

ticking · 29/09/2019 06:27

@Washingyourcurtains I think insurance asks you for your licence number but you don't have to put it in. I renewed my insurance with my dad on it recently and didn't know his DL number as was told it didn't matter.

Jamhandprints · 29/09/2019 06:41

No way would they have the kids again. Your DH is being very unreasonable, it's really not normal or ok.
Does his wife have a licence? I've seen women pressured into taking responsibility for speeding tickets etc as a form of DV. It's disgusting, I hope that isn't what has happened there.

BeyondAvoidant · 29/09/2019 06:57

Just a thought - does he drive something like a reliant robin? You can drive them (if you can find one nowerdays!) on a bike licence.

Blueoasis · 29/09/2019 06:58

Is it possible he thinks you mean a card licence and he's said he doesn't have one, because he probably doesn't and has a paper licence? Didn't see anyone ask that yet or op mention it.

But then he was worried about prosecution so unlikely.. Grass him up op. He shouldn't be driving, he's not legal. And it's doubtful he would pass now really. It's hard to pass now, he has bad habits.

ticking · 29/09/2019 07:01

@BeyondAvoidant I think that stopped a while ago now... You have to have a full bike licence to ride a bike so the loophole of driving an RR on a provisional disappeared.

Blueoasis · 29/09/2019 07:03

Plus how was he caught on camera speeding and contacted about it if he has no licence? They wouldn't know who to contact surely? Wouldn't they have to check his driving licence details at the time? I imagine it's mostly automatic now with that system but surely someone checks it as well?

Namechangeymcnamechange11 · 29/09/2019 07:07

No license = doesn't drive your DC.

You also need to report him so that the police can "spot check" him or "anpr" him. Not just for your children but for anyone else who may have the misfortune to be involved in an accident with him and be affected by the lack of insurance.

happycamper11 · 29/09/2019 07:17

I always thought insurance companies had access to DVLA records to confirm licence/how long you've held it etc as many policies require you to have passed for a set amount of time. It would be very easy for someone to lie to lower a claim. I know when I hired a car abroad once and had forgotten my licence they very quickly and easily confirmed with DVLA. I guess the car could be insured through someone else.

I'd not report as the fallout would be awful but I'd definitely not be allowing my DC in the car.

BeyondAvoidant · 29/09/2019 07:17

@ticking I only know it was possible as my grandad drove one - and he only did his normal driving test about ten years ago as the RR parts had become so hard to find Grin

Apolloanddaphne · 29/09/2019 07:23

I don't know about anywhere else but in Scotland you need to present your licence when you pay a speeding fine.

Bourbonbiccy · 29/09/2019 07:30

Obviously he hasn't become an incapable driver the minute your found out he didn't have a licence. If you felt he was safe enough to drive your children around before hand, he is still as safe now.

If you want to make a point and stop your children being in the car with him, but it would be on principle not safety, and that's perfectly fine.

No, I wouldn't report him, Unless he is an aggressive man, I would be an adult and have the conversation with him, not go behind his back.

bellinisurge · 29/09/2019 07:31

My Dad who would be in his 90s if still alive passed some kind of "can you drive?" "Yes" test just after WWII. He had a driving license. I am in my fifties. My siblings are in their 60s. We all have a driving license. The only way he could avoid a driving license is by acting illegally. It would invalidate any insurance he somehow managed to get.
Grass him up. Today

soulrider · 29/09/2019 08:04

Whilst it's true that he could be a perfectly safe driver I'd worry about what other rules he might consider unimportant.

Can't imagine people who think it's fine to not have a licence think that ensuring everyone is strapped in/has appropriate car seats is a must.

sprite25 · 29/09/2019 08:14

Anyone who drives but doesn't have a licence should be reported to the police, I'm shocked that people are just saying don't let him drive your DC around, he shouldn't be driving FULL STOP, what if he was to cause an accident and kill an innocent person or child?! I would report it and let him face the consequences

Seadragonusgiganticusmaximus · 29/09/2019 08:19

Lots of posters have said that any insurance the OP’s FIL may have (if indeed he does have any) would be voided by his lack of a licence. I don’t think it’s as simple as that. My understanding is that the law provides that in many (most?) cases an insurer is still liable for third party claims.

IANAL and all that so I might be wrong but I’d be interested if anyone knowledgeable could cast more light on this.

bellinisurge · 29/09/2019 08:25

If he hits me or hits my daughter and isn't insured, it is ridiculous to suggest that the insurance would somehow "pay".

Ratcatcher9 · 29/09/2019 08:42

The awful thing about uninsured drivers is that if they hit you, your insurance might not cover either your car or your long term care needs/adaptations to house needed unless your own insurance has a clause that specifically covers being hit by an uninsured driver. It's lose/lose. Except not the for the uninsured driver.

MyBootsAreMuddy · 29/09/2019 08:54

Could he have passed his test in another country? Some countries have similar standard of test to UK and you can swap your license for a UK on, which is what I did. I learnt to drive in NZ and when i moved here i swapped my license for a UK one after a few months. I didn't need to take a test here as NZ is one of the designated countries that don't require a retest.

bellinisurge · 29/09/2019 09:00

@MyBootsAreMuddy my dad passed his test in another country which was still a British Colony at the time. He turned that into a UK license on return.

JudgeRindersMinder · 29/09/2019 09:21

@Blueoasis when someone is caught speeding by camera, it’s the car that’s “caught” by ANPR, not the driver. The summons then goes to the registered keeper of the vehicle, who is required under s172 of the Road Traffic Act to identify the driver

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