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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Okay, about teachers...

999 replies

KitKat1985 · 28/09/2019 13:21

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

OP posts:
lazylinguist · 28/09/2019 15:22

the self importance that many teachers have about insisting their job is oh so much worse.

Bollocks.

I think some of it is that teachers actually think it’s going to be 9-3 with a bucket load of annual leave and then are pissed off when that doesnt quite turn out to be reality

Utter horseshit. Of course nobody going into teaching thinks that. Only ignorant twats who have no clue about anything think that. HTH.

nuttybutter · 28/09/2019 15:22

If people would stop making stupid comments about holidays and only working 9-3, teachers wouldn't have to defend themselves all the time.

People constantly make utterly idiotic comments like that.

lazylinguist · 28/09/2019 15:24

Exactly, nuttybutter. I can only conclude that they are a bit thick and very ignorant. That's probably the fault of their teachers though. Wink

Sotiredofthislife · 28/09/2019 15:26

As a teacher I would say the saddest thing about this thread, on a parenting website, is the inability of the average parent to care to see just how far down on its knees our education system is. Keep slagging is off, by all means, but do it from an informed perspective. The level of misinformation, half truths and outright stupidity ensures that your children are not getting the education they deserve. You should be concerned, as consumers, easier just to jump on us rather than listen, eh?

Mistressiggi · 28/09/2019 15:32

Nothing the OP has posted subsequently makes me think this is anything other than a goady post.
I have responded in detail to such posts in the past, I have reported to mumsnet, and they pop up with gut wrenching yet tedious regularity.
Hence I think we could borrow some of the approaches from the feminism threads - ignore, ignore, ignore.

BenWillbondsPants · 28/09/2019 15:34

As a teacher I would say the saddest thing about this thread, on a parenting website, is the inability of the average parent to care to see just how far down on its knees our education system is. Keep slagging is off, by all means, but do it from an informed perspective. The level of misinformation, half truths and outright stupidity ensures that your children are not getting the education they deserve. You should be concerned, as consumers, easier just to jump on us rather than listen, eh?

@Sotiredofthislife it's mind-boggling just how absolutely screwed education in this country is, isn't it. You are absolutely correct.

saraclara · 28/09/2019 15:37

Before you go, OP.... I was a teacher. I've been in hospital. I took my marking. Your working life is a piece of piss compared with teaching.

You're being ridiculous. You have no idea about what the OP's job is like, any more than the average parent knows exactly what a teachers job is like.

I have two daughters. One a teacher, one a ward sister. Both of them have very stressful jobs, but in different ways. They each envy the other the advantages of their jobs (one the holidays and weekends, the other, the the long days on, and four days off, etc) and are glad they don't have other elements of each other's jobs (the life or death decisions and the shiftwork that makes it hard to plan anything vs never being able toswitch off and having to plan and assess every minute of their working day rather than just do what needs doing)

Neither of them could or would want to do each other's job.

BogglesGoggles · 28/09/2019 15:38

I’m pretty sure most teachers realise that their job isn’t the most stressful. Nobody dies or goes bankrupt on their watch as they do in other professions.

gostiwooz · 28/09/2019 15:40

I know someone who is a farmer - breeding cattle. That is pretty full-on stress from what I've observed. He says that vets have a rather stressful time of it as well. Farmers are never off duty. In all the years I've known him, he has never had a holiday.

Stress is one of those things that affects people in different ways. Several family members, now retired, were teachers and one still is. I have seen the effect it has had on them too.

WombatChocolate · 28/09/2019 15:41

I challenge the idea that most or even many teachers say or suggest that teaching is the hardest work job in the world. I think people who think teachers are saying this or are implying it are actually projecting that idea onto them, because for some reason there are things about teaching that irritate them.

Few people in any profession claim theirs is the hardest. People would be stupid to do so and generally these people aren't stupid. That doesn't mean they don't say they work hard, or they don't comment on the fact they work in the evenings or regularly at weekends. Teachers often face comments from people about their early finish time or long holidays and often its in response to this, rather than out of the blue, that they reply by pointing out the hours they work outside of the school day - not to suggest they work harder than others, but to remind people it isn't a 9-3.30 job.

Having the long holidays is a lovely aspect of teaching and the fact that the school day ends at whatever point and there aren't meetings every single day, so despite there still being 3 or 4 hours of work to do, there can be some flexibility to go home or do something else immediately after school is true. I think lots of people do feel a bit resentful about those positives - they think of themselves in their office until 5.30 and imagine teachers all heading home at 3.30 and forget the 3 hours many will do later. Or they particularly think of the holidays and the fact they are having to work and arrange childcare and they feel irritated about it and as if it's unfair. Again they forget that teachers aren't paid for school holidays and about the long days in term tome and the fact that they could do it if it's so brilliant.

In my experience, it's not usually those who do highly stressful, long working hours jobs who complain about teachers being moaners. It isn't the nurses or the solicitors or the people in the city. Those who do really stressful jobs don't usually try to make comparisons or comment on how moany other people are. Because they do long housed, stressful jobs themselves, they just know what it's like and don't feel any need to say theirs is worse or to suggest others are having an easier deal. They all know they have chosen these jobs..it's actually often those with the more low paid jobs that make the complaints about teachers being moany or who want to suggest teachers have an easy life and point to the short school day or the long holiday.

I actually think those people who work in non-professional jobs, with set hours which you do and leave dead on time and go home, leaving work totally HP behind, who say teachers are moany or point to the holidays etc to suggest it's an easy life, can sometimes just lack the understanding really of the nature of doing stressful professional jobs, which don't have set hours and simply have to be completed. Probably those people are in jobs that perhaps don't pay so well and think teachers work 35 weeks from 9-3.30 just playing and think they are overpaid and have no reason to say they work hard, because they don't grasp the wider nature of professional jobs and the differences between turning up and carrying out tasks and going away again, and having jobs which take over your head for almost all your waking hours. It's a very different way of working.

So I'd be interested to know from this thread, of all those who do feel that the teachers they know are saying or implying their job is the hardest;

  • have you heard them say that
  • what have they done to imply their job is not just hard but harder than all others
  • what kind of job do you do yourself.

It's fascinating that those on the thread in other stressful jobs feel no need to suggest their job is more stressful nor to suggest teaching is a pretty good deal, nor to suggest that teachers are all moaners and saying they work hardest.

I think the issue is with the people who take on the attitude that teachers say they work harder, and that they think teachers say this when in actual fact very few do.

WaterSheep · 28/09/2019 15:45

your children are not getting the education they deserve

As someone who works in a school, I see the effects of government cuts. The chaos of constantly changing the curriculum, and the ever shifting goalposts. I also see the parents who vent their frustration at the teaching staff, and wish they would direct their anger at those who are actually responsible. Sad

fedup21 · 28/09/2019 15:45

I’m pretty sure most teachers realise that their job isn’t the most stressful. Nobody dies or goes bankrupt on their watch as they do in other professions.

That suggests a criteria that only if you’re in the situation where someone dies or are made bankrupt on their watch are the ‘most’ stressed people? I didn’t much like her, but Teresa May looked pretty stressed this year.

I don’t know anyone who is so self important to think their job is more important, to be honest.

AnswersAndQuestions · 28/09/2019 15:46

I’m sure both jobs can be labelled as stressful. They are both extremely demanding and expectations are high. But theses demands and expectations are completely different. Why the need to compare? Surely, both professions are working extremely hard in underfunded sectors to do the best for those in their care.

I have friends and family members who are teachers and I’ve never heard them claim their job is anymore stressful or challenging than anyone else’s.

I think as everyone has been to school they feel that they know what it’s like to be a teacher and more often than not people are negative towards the profession and have very little respect for teachers.

We should be grateful to teachers and nurses for all the goodwill they show towards the jobs they do. Both are vital roles in society. Sadly, it seems that teaching in comparison to nursing is held in very low regard. Which is such a shame when teachers are dedicating so much of their own time and spending their own money resource, support and teach our children.

ChloeDecker · 28/09/2019 15:47

How many anti nurse threads do you see on Mumsnet, OP? Genuine question.

Please don’t be part of the teacher bashing threads on here by starting shit threads like this that have been done to death. It is not a competition.

kateandme · 28/09/2019 15:47

i think there is so many stressful elememant to most(many) jobs at the moment.in every field people find themselves in.everyone i know is being puhed to the limit of what they are doing and should be doing.
i dont think we should compare.
someone working in IT might find how hard his job is too much but copes and coul never think of doing nursing becasue hes not made ofr it.
same with teachers against nursing.
everyone has different strengths.but i think with the climate like it is so many people are being puhed to stressful situation they are finding overwhelming.
and there is so much more to how people manage.it depends on support at home.how many other people rely on them.how many saving they have or how many other things in their lives.
so a cleaner at the hospital could be finding it harder than a nurse.
but whos to say who is worthy of being more stressed.

autumnnightsaredrawingin · 28/09/2019 15:49

This subject has been absolutely done to death on Mumsnet and it never ends well. Teaching is hard, hard work. During term time, your evenings and a large portion of your weekends are not your own, and neither are all the infamous long holidays. During term time, I would say most full time teachers work at least 60 hours if not more.

However, I don’t think it should be a competition. Lots of careers are very, very tough. Teaching, nursing, being a paramedic, a firefighter etc.

What would be better would be if there was some proper change that allowed everyone to have a better work life balance.

autumnnightsaredrawingin · 28/09/2019 15:52

Also to state the obvious, I think a lot of the teacher bashing comes from the misconception that teachers get to school just before 9 and leave by 4. One of my family members (now in her 70s) was a teacher, and that was exactly the case for her. She couldn’t understand why when I taught I was getting in for 7.30 and often not leaving until 7.00/7.30 plus work at home and weekends. The expectations are so, so high.

Inertia · 28/09/2019 15:53

I don't know any teachers who claim that it's the hardest job in the world, though there certainly are stressful circumstances -especially in the current era of slashed budgets, and ever-decreasing provision for ever-increasing numbers of children with particular needs as specialist schools are shut down.

However, it only seems to be teachers who get moaned about on social media. The vast majority of people who work complain about it to friends from time to time. And despite listening to hours of moaning about work from friends and family, I've never felt the need to come onto social media and whinge that people who work in care homes never stop complaining, or that everyone who works in an office moans about how stressful their jobs are, or that the self-employed are constantly mithering on.

Inertia · 28/09/2019 15:54

I've taken a break from doing schoolwork to come on here, incidentally- best get back to it!

Atropa · 28/09/2019 15:55

I have actually worken in two schools where a day off for Christmas shopping was the norm. What doesn't get mentioned, though, is that those days were more than made up for by meetings after school, where an INSET day would be disaggregated throughout several after-school meetings until all hours were done. Similar happens at the end of a school year where the last day is a Monday and students wouldn't turn up anyway.

The long hours isn't the most stressful aspect of the job. It is that pretty much everywhere else there are large signs saying "Aggression towards and abuse of staff is not tolerated" and this is adhered to. Whereas I've had colleagues having limbs broken by students and still having to be pleasant to them in the classroom, having to deal with parents shouting at them over disciplining their children and being verbally abused daily. And then being told it's their own fault for not making lessons engaging enough.

Atropa · 28/09/2019 15:55

worked, even

HappyDinosaur · 28/09/2019 15:56

Completely agree with @autumnnightsaredrawingin It is not a competition. It would be better if healthier and less stressful ways of working were encouraged in all work environments.

fedup21 · 28/09/2019 15:56

I have seen so many threads like this where people (who have never had a job in a school) spout about teachers either

  1. not working very hard or saying that
  2. teachers whinge about having the hardest job in the world.

I have seen a few threads over the years with people saying Social Workers or Health Visitors are useless but have never seen any saying any other professions as attacked as teaching. Nurses are generally revered as being angels, those in the Fire brigade and doctors are heroes. Don’t see too many general posts about other professions.

Botanic · 28/09/2019 15:58

I could manage the workload in teaching, though it was big.

I found the pressure mentally exhausting. I’ve had a range of jobs from retail to law, but in teaching there was such constant scrutiny. Parents would monitor every word you said and even your dress sense, even stuff like telling you you’d worn the same dress for six assemblies when you hadn’t realised. Parents dumped emotional baggage constantly, emails all hours and formal complaints over total misunderstandings that were stressful to wait out (stuff like you’d said something to a child that was offensive the day you were actually on a trip with another year group...). The media and social media was full of criticism. At any time there could be a learning walk with nonsense feedback like you ‘need a bit more spark/ pace’ etc when your class were all happy and exceeding learning targets. Total micro-management, massive unnecessary changes and a general never ending paperwork. You could always do more, there was never a finished point or completion. You were expected to add mor resources/ more detailed plans or contribute to a school project. Or just be a social worker etc.

The level of very personal complaints is hard to weather, sometimes even fabricated to get you back. Great fun if you’ve ever been involved in safeguarding for the oldest of a family of six or something.

You also tend to be known in the community, people will and do comment if you go to McDonald’s with your kids or your kid is a nightmare in a local pool one day. It’s just so inescapable. I once had a complaint to the school that I never waved when out and about and the kids felt upset (I have mild hearing impairment and I honestly never heard them in busy places)

What I’ve loved about my other jobs is going home and just being me.

I wasn’t a bad teacher, consistently ‘outstanding’ but it really does mentally grind you down.

Toadstoolhome · 28/09/2019 16:02

Far more posts goading teachers than teachers moaning in my opinion .Of course there are many other just as stressful / more stressful jobs .