Okay, about teachers...

[KitKat1985]

Okay I'm being brave here. I know a few people who happen to be teachers. Whenever they talk about their jobs, there's a real 'no other profession has to work as hard as us' vibe to their speech. I am fully aware and in agreement that it's a stressful job with long hours and ridiculous amount of pressure if you don't count the long holidays but it's hardly the only profession that has these issues. I myself am a nurse, and 14 hour shifts on an under-staffed ward with no breaks and several severely ill / abusive patient to look after are hardly a picnic either. But whenever I discuss work with teacher friends there's a definite 'if you want to talk about stress you should try being a teacher' element to the conversation, and it's starting to really get on my nerves. Lots of jobs are stressful, teaching isn't the only one! And it's only teachers I know that seem to have this general attitude about their profession. AIBU? Is it really more stressful than any other profession out there?

I mean I know as far as the "long holidays" go, I'll be back in in the second week of the children's holiday to do planning. But go on, tell me I don't work hard enough and that I have too many holidays in

I’m a teacher for children with complex medical needs and challenging behaviour and it is definitely stressful. It is emotionally and physically tiring and then there is all of the pressure around planning and assessment and the endless paperwork, much of which feels pointless and I line manage a team of 7 TAs which is also time consuming. But I know a lot of jobs are like this where it’s a stressful occupation coupled with paperwork and pressure. I wouldn’t for one minute suggest it is more stressful than working in the emergency services or on a busy hospital ward or as a social worker etc.

I think maybe part of the reason some teachers feel the need to justify how stressful it is is because there are still people who think teaching is working 9-3 with cute kids and getting a holiday every month, when the reality is long hours in the week, extra paperwork at the weekends and going into work to set up the classroom or resources etc in the holidays. And that’s not to say teachers have it harder than other jobs, but rather that it is a lot harder and more stressful than many people give it credit for.

I live in Canada and work with teachers. Here their pay is quite good (compared to mine) & comparable with nurses (3 of my best friends are nurses). Where I live teachers are paid an annual salary and expected to spread it over the year (cue lots of whingeing about “unpaid summers”). They have 13 weeks out of the classroom a year.

As I work with teachers (& as a parent listening to the rhetoric during their fairly frequent strikes) I will say that the “no-one works as hard as we do, no-one is as low paid as us, no-one suffers as we do” is also the norm in Canada. And it’s grinds my gears. The educational assistants get paid about 1/3 of teachers pay, granted with no marking time needed, but with all the stress (& none of the complaining). Teachers say that they barely take holidays but I see them arrive back from Mexico, Hawaii, Europe - places the support staff can only dream of being able to afford to go.

It’s part of teachers’ work culture & they don’t hear how it sounds to the rest of the population - most of whom don’t get anywhere near the holiday time (I know part of the holiday time is spent marking and preparing, but it depends on the age of the students, the subject, & the teachers’ experience - even with loads of marking I can guarantee they still get way more than the average amount of time off).

Who dies when teachers get it wrong?

Are you kidding? Teachers spend 6 hours a day with your children. For some, teachers are the only consistent and trusted adult in a child’s life. Teachers are the frontline, they spot changes, support, protect and ensure children and their parents get the support they need. Safeguarding leads can be found dealing with disclosures, way into the evening and beyond. The days in the run up to holidays can be very busy - and harrowing - times for teachers as the reality of being at home for a few weeks kicks in and the truth comes tumbling out. When teachers get that wrong, or ignore it, or aren’t quite in tune with their charges children, in a worst case scenario do indeed die.

But yeah, all teachers do is play all day. Sigh.

And yet in teaching it just seems to be a culture of teachers all saying 'no-one else works as hard as us'.

All saying? Massive generalisation there @KitKat1985! I'm a teacher and have never said this! Don't tar us all with the same brush. It's a bloody hard job, and the amount of take home work is crazy, but I've never once said in my ten years of teaching 'no-one else works as hard as us'. No teachers I've worked with have ever said this either. I'm sure some teachers do say it, but certainly not all!

Bringonthescience I'm a nurse and I know plenty that have left the profession with 5 years of qualifying. I'm lucky to be in a good nursing job now. But till this job nursing ran my life, I was paid for 30hrs a week but in reality worked 56hours every week. My work phone was on 24/7 and the worry of not missing patients off the caseload or if the care I had given was adequate sent me to have a breakdown. Several of my colleagues attempted suicide which breaks my heart. We are also on the lower pay for public services.

Also I do understand other professions are under stress too. I do however seem to know alot of teachers who feel thier job is the hardest ever. Even using the excuse that of thier job causing them to not attend a booked nursing appointment or not taking responsibility for thier own health. Where as others with professional jobs dont seem to use it as an excuse.

But at the end of day we should all support each other and I am so grateful to my dd school staff who work hard to care for her and teach her daily. I'm due to go and talk to her class about nursing and I'm excited to work alongside with her class teacher.

granted with no marking time needed,

I love that you think that is all that is extra!

However, I do agree, it is not a race to the bottom. I do doubt that it is all teachers moaning, rather than one or two that shout that loudest and that is all people here or remember.

“teachers are the only consistent and trusted adult in a child’s life. Teachers are the frontline, they spot changes, support, protect and ensure children and their parents get the support they need. Safeguarding leads can be found dealing with disclosures, way into the evening and beyond.” Sotired, where I live the educational assistants also do this work (for a fraction of the pay and with a lot less complaining).

This is another thing, teachers at times forget there are other staff in the school. I’ve heard the staff room referred to as “the teachers’ lounge” and saw one teacher have a sulk as a sign had been put up saying “Educators, help yourselves to free coffee and biscuits as we say ‘thank you’ for the work you do” & he was peeved that the sign didn’t say teachers as he thought the educational assistants (who are usually juggling a few kids w high needs, anything from blind to severely autistic to FAS etc) should not have been included in the free coffee & biscuits. None of the other teachers set him straight.

Chloe, I said granted with no marking time needed as a lot of EA’s are doing unpaid lesson planning time after their shifts end, depending on their students and the class setup.

teachers at times forget there are other staff in the school

Not me. I ❤️ our support staff.

Not All Teachers Are Like That. (NATALT)

Thanks Smile! Some are great, but in the schools I’ve worked in there has overall been a weird class division (pardon the pun) between teachers and support staff.

These threads ALWAYS end the same way.

Teaching isn't that stressful but all teachers whinge about it.

But it is so stressful!

Yes, but they whinge about it.

But is IS so stressful!

Right.

If I read another même online about not having time to pee because you're so bloody busy, I may scream. Or another before term vs after term owl or something with hair standing on end.

Rita honestly? I couldn’t do my job without the TAs/pastoral staff/Admin team

Or the IT team who regularly dig me out of holes. Or the caretaker who is amazing.

^*Who dies when teachers get it wrong?
^
Are you kidding? Teachers spend 6 hours a day with your children. For some, teachers are the only consistent and trusted adult in a child’s life. Teachers are the frontline, they spot changes, support, protect and ensure children and their parents get the support they need. Safeguarding leads can be found dealing with disclosures, way into the evening and beyond. The days in the run up to holidays can be very busy - and harrowing - times for teachers as the reality of being at home for a few weeks kicks in and the truth comes tumbling out. When teachers get that wrong, or ignore it, or aren’t quite in tune with their charges children, in a worst case scenario do indeed die.

But yeah, all teachers do is play all day. Sigh*.

I didn't said they play all day. I tend to think of teachers in the context I experience them which currently is secondary school and I don't see much play in my sons schedule. In fact several times I've said I couldn't do it with a class of my own kid let alone 30-40 different ones.

You've (maybe deliberately) taken that comment out of context. It was in response to a direct comparison with a nurse carrying out a clinical procedure vs differentiation in a classroom. I'm thinking even the most militant of teachers can realise that nurses maybe carry a bit more immediate risk in those circumstances?

I nurse 17 young women who actively want to kill themselves a great deal of the time. If I or any of my team misjudge things we will be in court very quickly. We also safeguard them and I spend around 42 hours a week with them and then work at home to make sure my paperwork is straight. We deal with some pretty harrowing stuff as well as I'm sure you can imagine.

I sympathise with teachers a great deal and genuinely think that this defensiveness on both sides is misdirected (even if I have given in to it this evening, I've run out of chocolate forgive me) and we should be working together with police and fire and ambo and every other person who is being screwed by the government.

We could do with you over here! People thank the head secretaries but the rest of us are (underpaid and) invisible.

Sorry, that reply was to Smile.

and we should be working together with police and fire and ambo and every other person who is being screwed by the government

Agreed.

Teaching is hard because for at least 5 hours a day you are pretty much acting in front of an audience, only there is no script. The script is up to you, but of course that 'script' has to ensure that 30 children are making progress and their individual needs are being met at all times! This is what made it harder than any other job I have had. It's exhausting to be 'on' for most of your working day, everything you say matters. I work in a totally different environment now and to walk in to work and just be myself is an absolute revelation! Infact it took me quite a while to get used to, to be able to chat to colleagues and be relaxed at work was not something I had ever experienced before. Teaching is actually quite a lonely profession in many ways, you can guarantee that everyone in that building are working to full capacity and no time for anything else. Oh combine that with the job never actually finishing, there is no point at which you can say you are done. Things could always be just a little bit better, it just expands with the time you have available. I loved teaching but my goodness I do not miss the sustained level of stress I would feel!!

It’s the intensity of the workload that is the issue I think. It’s a regular workload all crammed into term time. Leaving holidays for the stuff that doesn’t get done in term. Which for me includes more work (planning, display, wider reading etc).
We are scraping the barrel for staff at the moment. If the general public truly understood how poor recruitment and retention is and its effect on the quality of our children’s learning they’d be shocked, truly.
We’ve had a permanent ad for at maths and science teachers since this time last year. The English posts have been filled by Teach First students. I’ve never seen it this bad.

I retrained and went into teaching after a 10 year career in comms and definitely felt this sense of "teachers have it hard." However, I do agree that teaching is a very demanding job. From the second you arrive to the time you leave, it is constantly on the go. However, I know other professions work just as hard. Plus, in teaching you have the massive bonus of getting to work with wonderful children. I think the teachers i know who find it the hardest dont agree with the "wonderful bit"

"Teaching is almost a perfect storm - it is stressful, it's long hours and low pay and people don't appreciate it or respect it.

I can't really think of another profession that suffers from all of that."

Social work?

"**Every single other profession is able to choose when they go on holiday, and therefore have the option to go during cheaper times of the year."

^That's incorrect.

I know lots of people who like to offload about how crappy their jobs are: teachers, social workers, T.A.s, Family Support Workers, Camhs workers, paramedics, nurses, doctors, firefighters, police officers the list goes on. Some talk of PTSD and no choice in shifts, working bank holidays and long days, others of the work they take home and compassion fatigue. All are stressed, overworked and underpaid. They are working in a broken system which isn't getting any better.

I've not heard a single one say they have it the worst. In fact I hear them all say that they empathise with the strains of the others, I hear "I'm stressed, but I couldn't do your job".

This thread makes me glad for the company I keep.and that we're not all racing to the bottom

I'm a teacher and I rarely talk about work outside of work. I don't like to moan about how hard I work - it's just not very interesting chat! Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

seven
I'm the same. I don't like talking shop at social occasions either.

The only things I tend to bring up are relevant anecdotes or a brief dismissive comment in situations where people make the 'hilarious' joke about always being on holiday/alright for some finishing at 3, don't know a full day's work etc.

I have two autistic children in my class, one whose just arrived with no English. 7 with not great English and a child with complex disabilities and depression. Love them all I genuinely think all 30 are fab. I start at 7.30 and leave at 6.30. Eat my lunch at my desk and can’t afford to do much in the holidays.
I don’t think I’ve ever complained to a nurse about my job I don’t really complain to anyone.
I’ve always found nurses quite hard and unhelpful so I tend to avoid them unless I have to interact.
Oh and I hate the long holiday because there are quite a few kids I know who aren’t safe with their parents and there is also a danger they forget what we’ve taught them.