Phonics? Dc can learn to read without it? Surely? Those that don't get it.. ANY positive stories?

[Imnotthrowingawaymyshot]

My dd doesn't get phonics.
She just reads the words.
The school is still plugging phonics. Could there be an issue with my dd ie dyslexic? Or something else if she doesn't get phonics?
I just read the old fashioned way. Anyone else have dc who are fine but didn't get phonics? My older dc has very different brain, very ordered she got phonics and it helped her read like formula... Younger dc just bumbles along.
Year 2

This really pisses me off, the whole "if you teach it well anyone can learn with it" is absolute rubbish. I have a masters in specific learning difficulties and it simply isn't true at all. 3% of schools last year achieved 100% there's around 21,000 primary schools in the uk and only 3%, 18% of pupils failed and did not even reach the pass mark. Where nearly 20% of pupils aren't passing this is not the key to getting all pupils to read anyone who has taught Sen will tell you, as have endless people on this thread that it simply doesn't work for some pupils. Any experienced and skilled teacher will tell you that you need a range of methods to teach reading not one.

Surely every literate adult must understand phonics to some extent?

Otherwise what happens when you come across, say, a person’s name? If someone is called Lavolo, surely everyone at least knows what sounds L has and have a guess at a possible pronunciation?

Genuinely curious as to how a literate adult can have no phonics knowledge at all and just learn all whole words.

I believe some kids are 'sight' readers and see the whole word as you might see a picture. DD is very advanced in her reading for example but can't spell for toffee. She has a photographic memory and I think this is reflected in her reading which she just picked up so quickly with zero effort required from me. Schools need to understand there's more than one way to learn instead of trying to pigeonhole all kids into the same Learning style.

I'm not sure where the Phonics works for 95% of children came from but it's totally untrue. In every class of 30 I've had at least 6 that's simply couldn't get it, that's 20%

That is a really high failure rate. If that’s happening year on year you should be able to get that much lower with a bit of tweaking. I wouldn’t expect it to be more than 1 or 2 children at the most in a typical reception class. Can get skewed a bit if you have a lot of children with SEN.

It's really important to remember each child is unique, they all have methods of learning that work for them.

If DC learns how to read properly, I don't think it matters, as long as they are reading, doing well at writing, spelling and comprehension.

That is really important, that DC read and understand the text.

A similar thing happened in maths with my niece, she couldn't do what was asked of her, the way it was asked. So it was literally testing out different methods till one clicked.

Only subject I ever failed was phonics. I was an advanced student and incredibly strong reader. I just could not do the phonics assignments.

Dd gets them now and I am no help. She also struggles despite being an extremely advanced reader, writer, and speller.

I would also add that Year 2 is quite young still, if you have Instagram, check out a woman called VenisonForDinner, she homeschools her DC, one can't quite grasp reading that well, she's all for DC doing it at DC's own pace.

In Sweden and I believe Scandinavia, children go to school circa 8 years old, as the emphasis is more on learning through play and experience.

Amazon have some good resources. My DN loves Reading Eggs, as it's a platform that's fun and interactive. If you are worried, speak to SENCO.

Best of luck 🦋

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p07gy9m1

Stay with it... It's only 10 highly entertaining minutes.

A reader is unlikely to be 'advanced' if they cannot read words they have not encounters them before.

Also there is a lot of confusion about what is phonics eg

• not realising it is is the traditional method, around for centuries
• shown to leave fewer readers struggling than any other single methis it combating of methods
• brain scans show that people generally read phonically (based on how brain lights up when reading), it is simply so very rapid that there is no conscious awareness.
• phonics include things like 'sh' and 'th', and all the consonants, as well as all the different ways one can write vowels. Children can work these out for themselves (even those not taught phonically have brain patterns which show how they read) but it is usually quicker and more effective to teach how to use the code than leave each pupil to work it out.

Of course some will struggle - and as you can expect fewer when phonics is used well, that means the teacher's is not so stretched by numbers when providing intervention.

And you can learn to read by sight reading - Chinese pupils pretty much have to do so (the elements that make up characters can contain some clues but they do not really tell you the sound) and there is a heck of a lot of rote learning (they really are barking at print) and that makes for a very different classroom experience

Buy the Peter and Jane lady bird learn to read set it's very good. Got mine from amazon.

My DD2 did not get phonics at all, she was so behind.
Then when she did catch up, she wrote in phonics for a long time, which seemed to drive teachers mad - FGS you TAUGHT her the bloody phonics in the first place, then expect them to write it otherwise?
DD2 was also so behind in maths at primary, overall it wasn’t great for her. I worried she had some learning issues, she was in all the bottom groups and needed a lot of extra support

She’s 15 now and in year 11 predicted at least 6’s for maths and English. She has had no issues at secondary school because of the different way it is taught!

DD 9 is dyslexic and still doesn't get phonics however she can read well, she just memorises the words (and often guesses them from the context) which is ironic considering her spelling is entirely phonetical. A friend of mine is a teacher in an SEN school and is of the opinion that the focus only on phonics is failing a lot of kids as many are 'sight readers' and could do to be taught as such

Dd2 Is dyslexic.
She made zero progress until we happened upon the rainbow fairies when she was 8 or 9. Dull as ditchwater but constant repetition ( like the old Peter and Jane books) was a breakthrough for her.

I'm 60 and I don't get phonics. I sight read before I started school. I'm currently teaching a dyslexic 14 yr old in preparation for a basic skills English qualification. He does a bit of phonics to help with reading-it doesn't. I'm always suspicious of "trademarked" educational methods.

It isn’t a trademarked educational method.

@SudowoodoVoodoo

What is chronic reverse?

Sometimes dd will sound out words and then miss that first letter and start from end?

My dd will guess so much and yes from the the context. Will eye test tell me if she has dyxkeixa

Years ago I volunteered with junior school children who struggled with literacy and did a lot of reading up on it, so this isn;t a professional opinion but I did get obsessed with it. I read lots of scholarly articles that argued there are two different types of pathway when it comes to reading. Some children learn through phonics, others through look and say. One is not superior to the other, but phonics is currently in vogue, so look-and-say learners end up struggling. I wish hey;d recognise it;s not one size fits all. I used to switch to look and say with struggling pupils and they'd make progress.

My DS didn’t get phonic, taught himself to read before school.
Holds the record for the earliest free reader In the last last eight years.

Almost full marks on the reading SATs.

Reading years ahead of classmates. But most importantly LOVES Reading, reads for two hours a night.

School still spend years worrying about it!

My child reads really well as a sight reader but the school are telling me he is failing because he hates phonics. He has an incredible memory so he learns better with flash cards and just reading old fashioned peter and Jane type books.

DNiece used to occasionally do that with blending from end to start. Especially when tired. She did eventually just grow out of it.

An eye test won’t diagnose dyslexia. But vision and hearing tests would be the first things worth doing. The reception screening ones are fairly basic and can miss things.

The guessing is almost certainly because of mixed methods and flashcards. Once you tell some children that some words can’t be sounded out and need to be learnt by sight they seem to start trying that approach everywhere.

No neither of mine learnt with phonics. Makes reading more of a chore for young kids imo.
Letterland all the way. Reminds me of how we were taught a long time ago.

This was my DD, reading was a real struggle through Reception and Year 1. Then suddenly it just clicked, she'd learnt enough words by sight and could read fluently. She's now in the top reading group in her class and is rarely found without a book in her hand but she still can't really sound a word out phonetically!

Thinking back, I was the same. In fact I still am, but it's only really noticeable when you have to read unfamiliar words like dinosaur names.

My DS on the other hand, seems to totally get phonics. He's only been in school a couple of weeks and is blending like a pro because that seems to be how his brain understands things.

It's stupid they're all expected to learn in the same way really.

The school is high achieving Im sure they had 100%pass at some point on phonics test.

I'm concerned they are more worried about this phonics test than actually finding the best way to help dd.
I understand an entire class can't be taught in a way that help dd however she does have extra sessions every day so in those I would expect them to help her how she needs help.

I truly believe the only reason she can read stage 5 fairly well is because of the help I give her, flash cards, and Peter and Jane books.

She also didn't want to read with us before or have us read to her. She's only just happy and wiling to read every day her school books and she's not liked us reading to her either.

I loathe the comments on line, from teachers... 'read with your dc and its a nice cosy thing to do'

Yes!! It is, we did with dd 1!! Dd 2 absolutely hated it!! She wouldn't even let us put story cd on.

Maybe now she has 'loosened up' over reading.. Maybe this is her blossom time?

I'm just worried that it means there is underlying issue.

Sorry should mean the jolly phonics dry type teaching. Letterland is more of a visual and song based system but still classed as phonics although it wasn’t when we bought the programme a while back.