Phonics? Dc can learn to read without it? Surely? Those that don't get it.. ANY positive stories?

[Imnotthrowingawaymyshot]

My dd doesn't get phonics.
She just reads the words.
The school is still plugging phonics. Could there be an issue with my dd ie dyslexic? Or something else if she doesn't get phonics?
I just read the old fashioned way. Anyone else have dc who are fine but didn't get phonics? My older dc has very different brain, very ordered she got phonics and it helped her read like formula... Younger dc just bumbles along.
Year 2

Phonics are stupid. They make sense for some other, more phonetic, languages but for English it’s a waste of time.

All that matters is your child learns to read AND enjoy it. If she can read well for her age and is not eg mixing up ‘b’ and ‘d’ then she is not dyslexic.

The best way to learn to read is to read along with an adult. Studies have show that this results in higher levels of literacy than phonics, but with the massive class sizes we have now, teachers needed a way to teach huge groups and so we got stuck with phonics. The school have no choice but to continue to push phonics because it is how their teaching is assessed. This is not really your problem.

Don’t worry about it.

I'm worried about phonics. My 4 year old can't even recognise phonic sounds well enough to be able to speak properly let alone read the blinking things :(

I don't agree with making children read nonsense words with phonics, or think that it helps children who can already read but.... English is a mostly phonetic language, that's why it is easiest to learn (for the vast majority of words and people) by using phonics. It isn't mandarin, we don't have to learn hundreds of different symbols, we just need to learn 44 phonemes and we can sound out pretty much any word in the English language, and if we then figure out that we know a word that sounds like that, we know what we've read. We're really lucky to have a phonetic language and phonics is the key to using that.

There's a lot of misinformation on this thread. Phonics is the best way to learn to read. It works for something like 95% of children, while other methods work for around 80%.

There is absolutely no requirement or reason for children to 'sound out' a word that they already recognise.

There are very few words in English that 'don't work' or 'can't be sounded out' with phonics. Phonics goes way beyond c-a-t, and if the phonics code is taught systematically and well, it is very effective. Children need to be taught that one spelling can represent different sounds (and vice versa) so that when the first one doesn't fit, they can try another one.

OP, can you say more about your DD's reading? What makes you think she doesn't get phonics? Can she say the sounds for combinations like ie, ou, oa, ay? Can she read a simple nonsense word like paf or chim? What did she get in the phonics screening check? What books is she being given to read? She should have a phonically decodable reading book matched to her level.

Usually when people think that phonics isn't working, it is because the school is not teaching it consistently e.g. they are encouraging guessing or providing books that the child can't decode at their current level.

Is phonics actually the issue, or is it poor delivery of phonics?

If I tell a group of children to sound the word cat out by muttering kuh-ah-tuh under their breath, well, of course it's not going to work for all of them.

You do need someone who can produce these consonants in isolation without sticking vowels on the end of them.

I could never get phonics, still don't. I have a PhD in a science subject and no dyslexia. Some just don't get it.

@Witchend if you post in the Primary Education section, with some more detail about your daughter's difficulties, you will get lots of advice and ideas from people who have been teaching children to read for years.

30 years ago my children learned to read by sight "whole language". all learnt well BUT spelling was an ongoing problem for two of them well into uni.
spell checker makes up for any deficiencies.

I don't understand how phonics helps really. DD didn't learn to read like that even though that's what the curriculum pushed. She learned more at home without using phonics than she did in school using it. Her teacher claimed she was struggling (in year 1&2) because she didn't get on with the phonics method, but she was reading short novels at home with expression and her comprehension was great. Unfortunately, it's not easy to teach different students with different methods as there simply isn't the time or staff available. I think as long as they're on track with their reading and comprehension it doesn't matter how they get there, each child is different so they're not going to learn in the same ways.

Phonics can actually delay some kids reading as they become lazy and don’t want to learn what new words mean if they can sound them out.

Agree with @MrsKCastle as well that a lot of it comes down to teaching methods and helping the children to utilise the method correctly. That was a lot of the problem at DDs school, her teacher was barely competent and couldn't deal with children who didn't just "get it"

Before phonics there was "sight word" reading and that is how I learned at age 4. I never got phonics. I was reading above grade level in first grade. I taught all my children to read before they entered school so phonics wouldn't destroy their love of reading.

That's the term 'sight reader' my dd does well with flash cards too and she's definitely made progress on those.

Maybe I need to keep plugging away at home then and just forget about her coming on significantly at school while they insist on teaching her in ways she doesn't understand.

It's such a worry though when she seems so far behind the other dc.

I taught all my children to read before they entered school so phonics wouldn't destroy their love of reading.

Nonsense. If your children can read words like 'fruggle' and 'frabjous' and 'quidditch' then they are using phonics. Phonics does NOT destroy children's love of reading. On the contrary, it unlocks the world of books for that 15%+ of children who never learn to read properly using other methods.

I would think the vast majority of us are reading using phonics, just not necessarily formally taught phonics!

I myself was taught to read via the look and say method with a sprinkling of very bad phonics teaching I didn't comprehend in the least. I have a very good visual memory, so that worked well enough to be going on with, and over the years of reading, I simply subconsciously developed the phonetic associations. You know, like ea makes sound 1 in most words, the letter b = that sound and so on.

But it was years after that, that I ever got what people had been trying to get at when they said, stuff like "sound it out! Kuh-Ah-Tuh = cat so this word says..."

Mrs k she failed the check.

The only phonics combo she really understands, and me too 😁 is..

Igh..

Light
Night
Bright

That's the only one.

I really don’t get phonics either. I just don’t understand how they work or how they are helpful. My child is in year 2 and really struggling with reading but I can’t help as I don’t understand how they are teaching them and don’t want to confuse them further with the “wrong” method. I now understand why my mum couldn’t help me with maths as she was taught differently and didn’t want to confuse men

I've just realised I tagged the wrong poster in an earlier thread. Apologies, Witchend, i meant to tag the OP. @Imnotthrowingawaymyshot Please do think about posting on the Primary Education section, where I know you'll get lots of excellent advice. I asked earlier about why you think your DD doesn't get phonics, and what phonics she does know? Happy to try and help. (I teach Y2).

@skysblue

She does mix it up actually... Not always now, much less but bib rather than did...

She will correct herself more now.

I didn't learn phonics, but I distinctly remember when reading 'clicked'. One second the symbols may as well have been Chinese, the next second I could read (and immediately realised I could not go back, all text became decipherable as soon as I looked at it). I'm not sure phonics would have suited me at all, and I struggled a bit trying to do DS's homework with him. I don't think he really got it either. Cat doesn't sound like Kuh-ah-tuh. I eventually started saying the initial letter using the next vowel sound instead. Ireland doesn't really do the phonics tests, at least not when DS was small (er) and I think he just sight read anyway. He's a very quick reader now.

That being said I remember his Junior Infants teacher (Reception though some children don't start till 5) saying how quickly the children were learning to read since introducing phonics.

Rain, I got my dd going with flash cards and Peter and Jane books.

She's so much better but from sight reading (my new term 😂), but not phonics.

My daughter didn't get phonics either and she couldn't hear rhymes. I bought the Dancing Bears series and went through with her myself after school. That was when she was turning 6 years old. She picked it up after around 2-3 months of nightly exercises with Dancing Bears.

She needed the detailed review and teaching. She still struggles a bit with spelling.

My husband didn't get phonics either. He ended up memorising all words and learnt to read that way at around 7.

A pile

I was the same and I was very young they literally turned from Chinese as you say to words.

X-posted.

Would she not recognise ee, oo, ar? How about ch, sh, qu, ng? Do you know if she has been taught them?

You say she failed the phonics check, there is a big difference between a child who gets 5 and one who gets 31, but they would both be classed as not having passed. Can your DD read cvc words that she hasn't seen before, such as bim? If you said to her, "can you touch your t-oe-s?" Would she know what you meant?

Children need to get the hang of blending the sounds orally, and they need to recognise a good number of sounds before they really start to sound fluent at reading.

The school should be providing a lot of support this year. Do you know what they have in place?