To think there should be more funding for under 3yo childcare?

[Rainbowhairdontcare]

I know things are better nowadays, but still find it disheartening that two parents in FT work will only get the "tax-free" childcare help (around 20%). Our take-home pay is around £2k after commuting costs, £1k go to housing and utility bills (CT, energy, and broadband) and then 800 go to childcare even after that 20% off. Leaving us with £200 to feed ourselves, unexpected bills, road tax, insurance, etc..

Our basic UC is 750 +650 of childcare. Our deduction is £1350 so we're still better off with tax free childcare. As this is unsustainable, DH will have to go part time. A bit unfortunate given we don't want to rely on the system, but it's what works out best for our family. We'd both like to work FYT but because childcare is too expensive we can't afford to work as much as we'd like.

Personally I think universal childcare is the answer.

Who mentioned two children? I only talk about one child..

I think it should be expected, or raise MW or create a student loan type of thing.

Two MW jobs leave you with no recourse to any public funding, (apart from the 20% tax free element). Which still leaves us in the red after childcare of one child.

It still baffles me that unemployed couples/sahp’s get free nursery hours at all.. if it’s for the socialisation side of things take your child to a bloody toddler group, there’s free ones and the rest locally are £1.50 for 3 hours yes you’ve to sit with them but what’s the problem with that.

We chose to live on the tighter side with me at home, we won’t get nursery hours as were over the limit even without my income, my wage wouldn’t cover childcare as I can’t get set days or hours so I’d need a full time place on the days dp works incase I was rota’d in. So it means I’d end up spending my entire wage on childcare and travel if I even made enough.. claiming back our childcare costs isn’t even a predictable thing as they said they wouldn’t cover days we “didn’t need” Or confirm that we’d be entitled to as we’re not entitled to anything now.

The 15hours would be much better for couples who work, even if it was one pt one ft it’d actually make it affordable.. rather than now you must pay in advance and hope we’ll give you it back.

The privilege across this thread is just astounding.

To get the 15 hours at 2 is to try and create equity between children who are more likely to be disadvantaged and have less opportunity, in families where there hasn't been money for activities other families can do which aid social and wider learning. I cannot believe people are so short sighted not to see that we HAVE to support and help people who need it the most first, that's what equity is. Otherwise we're just saying if you're born into a poorer, more deprived family then we won't try and help you.

Not to mention the 'free' hours come at a cost to nurseries which receive a pittance for those hours from the Government, and they make up the shortfall. The mostly women working in those environments also need to earn a decent wage, as do the cooks and cleaners etc.

And the bigger issue here is a lack of flexible working, and extraordinarily high childcare costs. That is what we should be angry about and demanding change for. But people get up in arms about the lack of social provision but also don't vote for someone who proposes raising taxes.

we won’t get nursery hours as were over the limit you will get 15/30 hours when your DC turns 3 unless your DH is earning over £100k

i cannot believe people are so short sighted not to see that we HAVE to support and help people who need it the most first, that's what equity is. Otherwise we're just saying if you're born into a poorer, more deprived family then we won't try and help you

I actually think its more short sighted to believe that only children whos parents earn less than 16k are deprived, and children with 2 working parents aren't.

360

Can you not see you are in the position you are in because of choice. You have many choices, no fewer than anyone else.
Maybe you can't do anything different in the situation you are in, but you have free choice to change that.
I wouldn't want your lifestyle, it suits you but I wouldn't choose it.

I can see I'm wasting my time though, people would rather moan about having no choice than do anything to change.

Can you not see you are in the position you are in because of choice

and the prize for the most ignorant comment on mumsnet goes to....

I'm that ignorant that I believe the OP chose where she lived, the work she does, the lifestyle she has.
Such ignorance, I should have realised her choices were made for her. Ignorant me

you're very, very ignorant to believe that everything is a "choice".

its not a "choice" where you were born and therefore where you grow up, its generally not a "choice" which school you go to and all these factors can massively effect your life before you're even an adult.

you don't get to choose your parents and how they brought you up, you don't always get a choice in where you live, its not a choice to lose your job for instance, or have your hours cut.

all these things can sink people into poverty

but its ok because if you make the "choice" that you want more money to feed your kids it will just appear because that's the choice you made.

Christ, this place sometimes.

Do you tell people waiting at the foodbank that tough shit, its your choice to be here?

have some fucking empathy.

From my own experience, you can plan and choose as much as you like but sometimes life throws you a curveball and you have to make the most of it.

Maybe a loan would be a possible solution. You pay it back as soon as you're better off by X amount, just like a student loan.

I for once know that I won't stay in this salary bracket forever, but if I had waited until I could fully afford the £900 childcare bill without any sort of subsidy then my ship would have sailed. I should have had children when I was high flyer but I agent met my DH back then, life is filled with twists.

Where did I say everything is a choice?
Of course people fall on hard times, it has happened to us, many years ago.
My dh lost a contract, our neighbours lent us £50 we paid them back weekly, there were no food banks back then.
We made the choice to live as we did though, which are the choices I was referring to.
You can carry on thinking as you do, but it's a shame to go through life with this attitude rather than being in control of your life and choices.

but it's a shame to go through life with this attitude rather than being in control of your life and choices

I am in control of my life, but im also realistic about what i can and cant do. You seem to live on a totally different planet.

holiday

I'll take that, mainstream was never my goal.

When it comes to cc costs I find UK in stark contrast to Germany / Australia (family)

Germany’s is very low and people use it early and Aus gets a big rebate (by state anyway)

My reply was gosh imagine how freeing that would be for second earners (mostly mothers)

Not sure what stats are on return to work though

@MilkTrayLimeBarrel

I'm not sure why you or anyone should think the Government (i.e. taxpayer) should fund childcare when it is your choice to produce children?

Exactly this!! Nobody should have to pay for someone else’s choice to have children!!!

Nobody should have to pay for someone else’s choice to have children!!!

But.... we already do?

@holidayhelpppp

Nobody should have to pay for someone else’s choice to have children!!!

But.... we already do?

We do and we shouldn’t have to! If someone has children they should self-fund them 100% I wouldn’t adopt a dog and expect taxpayers to fund their care. Why should I pay for other people’s kids?

holiday

Yeh, we agree. Was just going to say we already do.
The 2 year free childcare gives opportunities to those who would start school at a disadvantage, I don't understand why people can't see this one. We never used it, nor the 15 hours free childcare for those of ours who were entitled. I didn't need it, but plenty of parents do and I think it should stay.

@SherbetSaucer you realise that these kids will look after you when you are older, and pay the state part of your pension?

I do think childcare needs to be more accessible, not just for parents, but to also improve the life chances of many children.

We also need to improve facilities and conditions/pay for childcare workers.

I got the 15 free hours for my son, but I couldn’t use tax free childcare, but the daily rate is still expensive.

I would happily have increased taxation to allow more children to access good quality childcare.

Why should taxpayers fund your childcare? I stayed home until mine were in school as did most families I know, we didn't have them until we could afford this - we lived in a tiny apartment and didn't have a car, a mobile phone or home broadband though, all things people expect. I'm not that old but I'm noticing a much higher senses of entitlement now.

@stucknoue life has changed quite drastically. if you stay at hime for extended periods of time, you a) are looking towards poverty in old age (state pension won’t exist much longer), and b) will hardly ever get a decent job again. 3-5 years out of the job market, and your qualifications are worthless . and childcare before/after school
and during holidays is expensive as well.

I don't think I'm.being entitled, you haven't read the whole thread. I've worked my butt off and have paid well.above my share in taxes. I've don't the maths £90k over 7 years is not nothing, that's without considering previous and current taxes.

I've said that maybe a loan system would be preferable. I've come to realise that not every couple will ever make above MW and that's two incomes. Should they not have a right to have children? With those wages it's unaffordable without some sort of subsidy.

Some people are not as lucky or privileged. I know I'll eventually go back to high paying salaries and I will happily pay my taxes. Just like I have. Up to this day, I have yet to receive Universal credit, tax credits, a student loan, housing benefit, etc...

My schooling didn't cost the tax payer a penny either. I was very lucky working parents who were able to provide for me and my sister.

Sorry about the typos! I blame auto-correct.

Why should we pay for you to use hospitals and gps sherbert? Hmm?

Because thats what taxes are for.