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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think there should be more funding for under 3yo childcare?

271 replies

Rainbowhairdontcare · 26/09/2019 08:17

I know things are better nowadays, but still find it disheartening that two parents in FT work will only get the "tax-free" childcare help (around 20%). Our take-home pay is around £2k after commuting costs, £1k go to housing and utility bills (CT, energy, and broadband) and then 800 go to childcare even after that 20% off. Leaving us with £200 to feed ourselves, unexpected bills, road tax, insurance, etc..

Our basic UC is 750 +650 of childcare. Our deduction is £1350 so we're still better off with tax free childcare. As this is unsustainable, DH will have to go part time. A bit unfortunate given we don't want to rely on the system, but it's what works out best for our family. We'd both like to work FYT but because childcare is too expensive we can't afford to work as much as we'd like.

Personally I think universal childcare is the answer.

OP posts:
Drabarni · 26/09/2019 14:29

holiday

Anyone can travel, we all have that right. Yes, we paid a mortgage, we chose not to spend money on childcare, doing it ourselves.
We do pay school fees though.

We could have made other choices, like moving back to support network and I could have worked, or childcare wraparound, nursery, working for nothing for a few years, keeping a career going, more holidays, another car etc. But we didn't chose that route.

Original poster
Rainbowhairdontcare · 26/09/2019 14:31

In fact it was the same for my mom, my grandmother was working on their family business while my mum was being looked after by someone else.

I see a working mum as the norm.

OP posts:
WellButterMyArse · 26/09/2019 14:31

I think the point about fewer hours is that the subsidy we do provide in the UK isn't primarily targeted at the people who are most likely to repay it through paying more into the pot. There are good reasons for some of that, for example the 15 hours for under 2s, but it does mean that there are people for whom a little help now might more than pay for itself later, but who aren't getting that.

hsegfiugseskufh · 26/09/2019 14:32

you pay school fees on 17k?

hmm.

you clearly don't live in the real world because "traveling" isn't really an option for most people, whos kids attend school, who have jobs etc.

you made very different choices clearly, which is great, but you need to understand the majority of people on the breadline cant for whatever reason make choices like yours, and their life can be hard.

life is hard when you're poor, generally.

Drabarni · 26/09/2019 14:34

I'm not having a dig at both parents working, my ds and fiance both work and have an almost 1 year old.
I'm saying it's choice.
You can live on one wage if you want to, you just live that lifestyle.
People saying they have to, are missing the point, unless of course they are a sp and sole provider.
We could all say we have to, but it's a choice we make for the lifestyle we want.

360eyes · 26/09/2019 14:34

YANBU

It needs more funding like other countries. If you want parents back in work, you need to help them, not make it impossible.

360eyes · 26/09/2019 14:36

You can live on one wage if you want to, you just live that lifestyle.

But you can't always, depends where you live. I'm on 25k. Even my take home pay would not be enough to pay rent, bills, food and run a car. It is NOT a choice.

Drabarni · 26/09/2019 14:36

There's such a thing as H.ed, another choice holiday We manage to work and travel, just chose work that allowed this.
We all have choices, maybe not what others would choose, but they are there.
I hate this "we have no choice," crap. If you want something badly enough then you'll do something about it.

Drabarni · 26/09/2019 14:39

360eyes

So somebody is holding a gun to your head to make you live that lifestyle?
If something went wrong you wouldn't look for other options? You couldn't possibly move, because there are no other homes.

hsegfiugseskufh · 26/09/2019 14:39

ah yes, those jobs that allow regular travel, so easy to find aren't they.

Why can you not just accept that its generally hard to run a house and have a family when you don't earn much money?

YOU have had a nice life on pennies, not everyone can.

Its not all choice at all.

hsegfiugseskufh · 26/09/2019 14:40

If you want something badly enough then you'll do something about it

if only it was this simple, eh.

bloodywhitecat · 26/09/2019 14:41

who's working for less than minimum wage?

Me. Foster carer, I get the 15 hours because as a foster parent to a 2 year old I am not allowed to be in an employed role and foster, my DP works full time. I am paid £155 a week for my sins. I am very grateful for the 15 hours a week free preschool I can claim, the child I have at the moment very definitely needs the social aspect that preschool provides.

Original poster
Rainbowhairdontcare · 26/09/2019 14:44

@Drabani how could live on one £18k salary? Even the cheapest rent here wouldn't go below £650. Leaving you with £500 to pay for food, CT, energy bills, etc...
CT, energy and water where I live would be £300.

If there were no subsidies for anything people on MW would never be able to afford to have children, even without childcare costs.

OP posts:
Drabarni · 26/09/2019 14:46

holiday
Because we all have choices.
I have no special powers, although many think I do.
It is this simple, I can't see why people complicate things.
Think of the lifestyle you want and make choices that allow this.

Whilst people like you see no choices the world will be a sad place with lots of unfulfilled people, moaning about their lot in life.
Yes, you do have to do certain things to make your dreams a reality.
For us it was cutting our cloth accordingly, but neither of us have ever been materialistic or spenders of much.

Chocolatedaim · 26/09/2019 14:49

It’s very tricky, good quality childcare, which is what everyone wants, costs.
Scandi countries have it right but it will take years before we have anything on par with them. (At an economic cost!)
I’m a childminder, the current subsidised hours are a killer for me. I make a financial loss taking on children with funded hours, but obviously I understand and appreciate why parents need them, and I can’t exactly afford to turn away every family that uses them.
Labour would really help and make a real difference but again it will take years to see their impact, until then we have to put up with the Tories destroying it all.

silveryleaf · 26/09/2019 14:50

I am a SAHP and I still think the government should put more money into public services including childcare. I value the importance of parents spending time at home with their children but also recognise some people need to work. Good quality childcare can also be very enriching for the child. I don't think it is right that a woman should have to forgo their career to look after their child. I would love it if more people could afford to be SAHPs and there was more of a community of SAHPs where I live however many need to keep working and their careers.

I loved JC's recent speech. Better pay, less working hours, better health care, better care for the elderly, plans for renewable energy. What's not to like? For far too long we have had austerity and given the very richest tax breaks. Why not have the very richest people pay a fair amount of tax, which they'd hardly miss and have decent public services? It's not like their additional riches are benefitting the country in any other way. Our taxes should benefit the population as a whole not be used to fund government find ways in which to make Britain a tax haven.

hsegfiugseskufh · 26/09/2019 14:50

haha, ok. its all our own fault for being poor then, eh.

you still haven't told me how you pay school fees on 17k.

Drabarni · 26/09/2019 14:50

Rainbow

I wouldn't be able to do that, but I wouldn't live somewhere that cost so much. I'd CHOOSE something different,
We had radiators off a wood burner at one point to keep bills down, there are ways to live cheaply if that's your CHOICE. Grin.

Before anyone says, yes, but I wouldn't want to live like you, of course we are all different, and CHOOSE different lifestyles.

TheClitterati · 26/09/2019 14:51

Our old primary school nursery is now charging parents £3k a year For a place. Apparently working parents are allowed to deduct the "free" hours from their bill, but my friend who is a lone parent on benefits has to pay the full £3k for her 3yo to take a place. When my dd went to this nursery a few years back it was a free full time place.

WellButterMyArse · 26/09/2019 14:56

I think drabarmi might be leaving out that she pays a very tiny percentage of the school fees...

Drabarni · 26/09/2019 15:09

Sorry, I wasn't leaving it out, just hadn't read the post until after my last post iyswim.
Yes, it's a bursary, but not 100% it still costs a couple of K per year, but state can cost that much with uniform and lunches etc.

360eyes · 26/09/2019 15:33

Drabarni

I have explained already why I havent got any choice but to work. One salary isn't enough in our house without going into the red and we are both on ok salaries.

It appears you are just on here saying it's a choice just for the sake of starting a debate and irritating most people who are in the position where they need to work, but most of that goes on childcare (although they still need the rest of the salary to get by).

You may be one of the lucky ones who do get a choice, but for most there isn't one. Just be thankful that you are one of those that can choose, but don't tell the ones that can't they are just whinging for the sake of it.

FWIW, I am quite frugal sometimes. I buy second hand, drive a £600 car. I am not one of those people holidaying abroad every few months and driving brand new cars, and moaning that I'm always broke like you might think.

QforCucumber · 26/09/2019 15:39

You can live on one wage if you want to this is bollocks.

Growing up my DM didn't work, we 'lived' on 1 wage, 2 adults 3 kids, nothing new ever. We were the 'scruffy' kids in school, we had debt collectors at the door weekly trying to take things as they couldn't afford to pay, car and house both repossessed and ended up in a studio for all 5 of us while the council tried to find housing. Your 17k income and private schools need to live in the REAL life world. We are in the NE, the cheapest in the country for housing. I CHOOSE not to have a life anything like that for my DS and I will not be sorry that I work full time to make sure of that.

(also, OP DH and I earn under £60k joint income, have 4 days a week nursery fees and have decided not to have a 2nd child until DS is of school age, we would love 3 kids but will stop at 2 as we simply cannot afford a 3rd)

ElizaDee · 26/09/2019 15:51

Personally I think universal childcare is the answer

Why do you think it's the state's responsibility?

You chose to have two kids, you pay for them, imo.

hsegfiugseskufh · 26/09/2019 15:55

You chose to have two kids, you pay for them, imo

do you say that to people who don't work and claim benefits, too?

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