To still be unhappy with school’s response?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

Ok, some of you might have read two previous threads on this matter. They’ve both been taken down now because of ongoing police investigations, so I can’t go into too much detail.

Anyway in a nutshell DS was attacked by a kid with a metal chain on the way home from school two days in a row last week. The boy was in uniform and as it was directly on the way home, had been carrying the weapon during school. There have also been other incidents that have taken place out of school, the most recent of which was an assault and attempted bike theft that involved metal chain boy plus other boys who go to the school. Other elements of this violence have leaked into school from the other boys too.

Metal chain boy has now been identified and excluded for three days. School are supposed to be liaising with the police over the identities of the boys as part of their investigations into the above incidents. They’re also supposed to be looking at CCTV for visual evidence of the boy having the chain. Last week they were looking at the wrong day, so yesterday I corrected them although they’d already been told. They said they’d follow it up but I’ve heard nowt.

I kept DS off yesterday because he’s terrified to walk alone. HOY called yesterday afternoon just as I was on the way out to the police station so I didn’t have time to quiz him but he said to send DS in this morning because they have a plan to keep him safe.

Anyway DS went in this morning. HOY wasn’t there to meet him as promised so the y7 mentor met him instead. Basically the plan is to keep DS in the library during break and lunch, let him move from lesson to lesson 5 minutes early and let him go home 5 minutes early.

For a start this doesn’t sound fair. Why should DS have his movements curtailed because of the bad behaviour of others? It also singles him out massively and impacts on his lesson time. School have given me no Indication of how long this is expected to go on for, in fact they’ve not contacted me at all. I’ve emailed HOY, head of safeguarding and head of behaviour this morning and had no response; I’ve called this afternoon and been unable to speak to anyone, and the receptionist said she’d pass a note over to get them to call back but nobody has.

So I’ve had no update on CCTV so I don’t even know if they’re doing what they said they would; I’ve had no word on what if any contact they’ve had with the police; and I’ve had no contact about how long DS will be effectively isolated from the rest of his peers.

I’m apoplectic, I’ve had to chase them continually and they’re still not communicating with me. AIBU to say they’re completely inept? On Sunday evening I was told by head of safeguarding that a meeting would be arranged to discuss al this, no such meeting has been arranged. What else can I do to get the school to communicate with me?

Is going and sitting in the school reception and demanding to see the head of safeguarding an option? using terms like "failing in their duty of care" "Ofsted" and "serious safeguarding concerns" you need to know what is going on and "oh she emailed you" is not good enough, yeah the email might have got lost but as you've told them you haven't received it, it is a serious matter and they have your number there really isn't any excuse for not contacting you by now.

sadotter
I'll be honest, the turning up shouting the riot act and demanding to see peoppe unlikely to get the desired response.

Ofsted are unlikely to be interested in anything that hasn't gone through the full complaints procedure and they're almost certainly not going to be interested in an incident where the school has got the victim separate from the perpetrator, the school have excluded for the main assaults and the police are also involved.

Their communication has been frankly appalling and there's been several issues along the way, but some approaches don't help get a resolution.

Has anyone else from school emailed you? Have they definitely got the right email address?

Op I would withdraw my child from school with immediate effect, as it does not sound as if they have the ability to keep him safe.

Then look for another school. I would also contact Ofsted, the head and the board of governors to let them know exactly why you have withdrawn your child.

Nope, no emails. They definitely have my email as I’ve recieved email from both HOY and head of safeguarding and I’ve replied. I’ve also put my number on each email.

I’ve got a busy one today but I’ll try to call when they open if I have time, then at lunch.

The odd thing is that DS was allowed to leave early the last two days to get home safe. Those measures end today, which happens to be the day metal chain boy comes back to school. Is it me does that make no sense. School haven’t sanctioned any of the other identified boys. I’m not expecting them to do much because that particular incident was out of school, but you’d thought they’d have at least mentioned it, to me at least, and how they intend to keep them and DS apart.

The whole thing is a mess. I’ve got the law round this evening, no update from school and no info. I don’t know who’s accountable for dealing with what and school aren’t helping. It’s like they think, ‘oh yeah, we’ve suspended metal chain, child has got out early for a couple of days so it looks like we’re on it so that’s that.’

I’ll ping off a quick email now, then see if I can call when they open. Then it’ll be lunch time. I’m out after school for another important appointment so that’s a no go as well. It’s frustrating.

Ask that the email from the head of safeguarding be forwarded to you. I bet they either send nothing or send a new email, rather than forwarding the imaginary email they were supposed to have sent.

I don't think your son is safe at that school and unfortunately I think you should probably withdraw him until you find another school.

I emailed the HOS. In return I got a snotty email saying that there was nothing more they could do, and that they’d not been in contact with the police so ner. On Monday I was told they were going to speak with the police that day, and that they would get back to me. I’m not a fucking mind reader. If they’d emailed saying, ‘sorry, there’s no update because we haven’t yet been able to speak to police’ then I would have understood, but no, I’m expected to sit and wait until they see fit to tell me what’s going on.

You need to be getting your evidence together and going down formal complaints here.

I do accept that they can't punish two unidentified students for what happened way out of school. But it's absolutely ridiculous that they have no idea who they are (so by default won't do anything practical to monitor the situation without placing the victim at a disadvantage, leaving the thugs to strut around like they own the place).

It sounds very much like as far as they're concerned they've done the exclusion for chain boy so that's the end. I'm surprised the exclusion was so short actually. I would have expected it to be a minimum of 5 days with someone from school exploring whether their conduct meant they would be facing a managed move or time in the PRU for further offences.

Could the school have been waiting for police to contact them? I'm clutching at straws knowing how multiagency working can be inefficient. It's worth mentioning to the police when you see them again.

What would concern me right now OP is that this is a school leadership who would sooner allow thugs to walk around largely untouchable. I've worked in a school with awful behaviour (fights / verbal abuse to peers and staff / assaults on staff) and whilst our leadership were ineffective, they wouldn't have accepted this level of "not our problem". This senior leadership seem less incompetent and more like they genuinely don't take their responsibility seriously.

Talk to a lawyer and see if you can bring an action against the school for failing to keep your child safe. If so, name the school and the individuals who are responsible for his safety in the complaint. That may make them listen and realise they have a legal obligation to get off their asses and do something.

As to what action can the school take - well the reverse of what they are doing. Bullies are the ones stuck in the library for all breaks. Bullies are the ones singled out to leave class 5 mins early and be escorted to their next class by office staff as they cannot be trusted. Bullies are kept behind of an afternoon until all students gave safely left for home. Bullies get singled out for exclusionary treatment, not their victims.

Gosh I’m so sorry OP this is horrendous. Sorry if I haven’t RTFT and there’s been further updates but re your original post - I completely second @GinDaddy what she’s said. School are massively minimising. Speak to the police yourself. Of course they weren’t looking on the wrong day. They were looking on the day they knew there wouldn’t be much to see!

It was obvious from the beginning that they were ducking and diving. Fron the time you weren't acknowledged that evening the rest was predictable.

I agree. I felt from the beginning that the school were reacting less than my own dcs' school would.

Get the school's bullying, safeguarding and discipline policies, go through them line by line, and fire off an email to the Head asking for a response by Monday morning explaining how they have applied those policies in relation to your child. Point out that it is reasonable to ask that they treat this urgently as they have had plenty of time to investigate and presumably they agree that your child's safety has to be a priority.

Also get their complaints policy and zap off formal complaints against all staff members concerned. Send a full account to Ofsted - explain that you know they can't investigate individual cases, but that this indicates cause for serious disquiet about safeguarding procedures at the school and they might like to investigate.

And, finally, get your son out of there as soon as possible.

I’m waiting for the copper to come round now. I’ll push him about contacting the school. School know the identities of 4 of the 5 boys. One has been identified by DS )metal chain boy) 2 have been identified by first name, and they’re unusual names and in his year, and the other has also been identified by DS and they have a picture of him.

My first priority is getting a transfer underway, then depending on what happens with the law I’ll make the necessary complaints. At the moment it doesn’t really feel like I have firm grounds. They are very hard to pin down.

And I’ve already said, three days exclusion for attacking someone with a weapon they’ve been carrying around school is a joke, if it was a member of staff he’d attacked he’d have been expelled. They’ve said there’s no evidence, and no witnesses so they can’t do any more.

I’m at a bit of a loss really. I just want my son out of there. the place is a shithole. There have been 8 fire alarms this week alone where kids are doing it on purpose, there are fights every day, the place sounds out of control.

It does

The school haven't been brilliant but their hands are tied regarding incidents outside of school. They have no jurisdiction there and they will not be able to enforce punishment for out of school problems. What do you actually want school to do?

I agree that moving your ds now sounds like a good idea and should be your priority.

I can see the schools point that if there is nothing to tell, they don't need to contact you. I know that feels frustrating for you but staff genuinely don't have time to be sending emails with no extra information on them. As a PP said, multi agency communication is difficult. You won't be at the top of the Police priority list either. The police should be taking the lead on their investigation and that includes contacting the school.

I'd argue that if they had no evidence and no witnesses they wouldn't have excluded in the first place!

To answer a question above. Why do schools sometimes favour the trouble maker over the well behaved child.

Money.

Sometimes the trouble maker attracts that lovely "pupil premium" or of a special protected status. There are 3 adopted by the same family trouble makers at the school my daughters attend and it's like they're untouchable.

There are 3 adopted by the same family trouble makers at the school my daughters attend and it's like they're untouchable.

How bitter.

Being adopted means they will no longer qualify for extra funding beyond the pupil premium.

More likely their background means they have extra needs and possible behavioural difficulties.

And I’ve already said, three days exclusion for attacking someone with a weapon they’ve been carrying around school is a joke, if it was a member of staff he’d attacked he’d have been expelled
Much as I would love to tell you that a student assaulting a member of staff would lead to a permanent exclusion, sadly I can't.

I worked in a school where I was verbally abused and assaulted by a student half a foot taller and much broader than me. He had a couple of days exclusion and then a few days in the reflection room to help him reintegrate. His parents stormed into school to complain to SLT as they had decided that it was my fault that this happened because I should have known he didn't like being told what to do. My crime? Telling him to leave smaller and weaker students alone.

Yes, 2 members of staff were verbally abused and one was assaulted for preventing a thug bullying weaker students.

School leadership were supportive in challenging the parent, but this was at a time when schools were being shamed for excluding students so they had their hands tied.

Even now there are some school leadership teams and SLT members who think that everything from classroom disruption through to verbally abusing staff/peers and violence towards staff/peers is just communication and the victims and the world around them needs to bend around the whims and wants of those who make school unsafe. At the thin end of the wedge, they argue that basic manners and appropriate conduct is a negotiation based on whether the students like the teacher, does the teacher entertain them and so on, and the fat end of the wedge is where staff and students who are the victims of verbal abuse, bullying and attacks have to sit down with the perpetrator and allow the perpetrator explain to the victims what the victim did wrong (because everyone knows that attacking and verbally abusing others is because there's an unmet need that the victim should have catered for).

There's movement to challenge this sort of nonsense thankfully, but even now there's a movement of some consultants and some SLT members who genuinely still promote these ideas in quite a self-congratulatory fashion

The copper who came round has done some investigating. He will be acting but only in a low level intervention role, so a stern bollocking. He doesn’t think due to their age that criminal charges are helpful or possible.

I’m quite happy with this. I didn’t expect anything else and hopefully a kick up the arse will have the desired affect. I’m not banking on it, but if DS has any more issues with these boys I’ve told him to talk to school if it’s in school, or talk to me, well tell me anyway.

The copper is going to speak to the school. The school should give him names, addresses etc. There’s only going to be one kid who matches that description and name. DS was quite good at remembering details actually, I’m proud of him.

I’m going to leave it now. The policeman will get back to me as and when there’s anything to tell.

I will be moving DS out of that bloody school though, it’s awful.

The copper was lovely. He pulled a 24 hour shift at a murder scene down the road yesterday. I admire his fortitude and resilience.

What a good update OP.
It sounds like the police have really taken the out of school stuff seriously. I'd also bet that those individuals will become very well known to the community police team over the next few years as well.

You're absolutely right to look at a school move. You've been brilliant OP

I'm glad to hear that you are removing him from the school.

To answer a question above. Why do schools sometimes favour the trouble maker over the well behaved child.
Rubbish. We get the same money for a well behaved kid or a less well behaved kid. The less well behaved kids cost us a LOT more money. They take up time and resources. We do what is morally right with the resources we have. Well, that's what good schools do!
Not all naughty kids are pupils premium, by a long stretch.