To have asked what’s the point in a ring?!

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I was talking to one of my friends the other day who is just over 20 weeks pregnant with her partner. They have been together for about 3 years and have lived together for the last 15 months.

We were chatting the other day about what she thinks the baby will look like (she knows she’s having a boy) and the topic of marriage came up.

She told me that all she wants is an engagement ring and she can’t work out why her partner won’t give her one. She said she isn’t bothered about getting married but she still wants for him to propose in order to prove his commitment to her. She just kept saying was “All I want is a ring.”

I asked her why she wanted him to give her an engagement ring seeing as she isn’t bothered about actually getting married and she took huge offence.

I didn’t say it nastily, I was just generally confused by her way of thinking. She then said that the proposal would be a demonstration of his commitment to the idea of marriage even though they aren’t actually fussed about doing it. She said she would feel like he was more committed to her if he gave her a ring.

I said that proposing and giving a ring isn’t the commitment part, it’s the marriage that cements that commitment, and the fact they live together and are having a baby is already quite a big demonstration of how committed to her he is.

She then got really huffy, made her excuses and left. I text her later that evening to apologise if I upset her but she didn’t reply.

Surely I’m not alone in thinking an engagement ring is pretty pointless if neither party are bothered about getting married?!

I would be advising her to give her child her surname and not name him as the father on the birth certificate.

Somebody once wrote on a Mumsnet thread.
Having a child with somebody is a commitment to the child, not the other parent.
Having a mortgage/ together is a commitment to the bank/landlord only.
The biggest commitment you can make to your boyfriend/girlfriend is marriage.

So I’m afraid I don’t agree with what your told your friend OP, about living together and having a baby as showing a big demonstration of how committed her boyfriend is to her.

erhaps your friend meant that she isn't fussed about getting married just yet but instead eventually (years away) and just thought it would be nice to wear an engagement ring in the mean time. Did she actually specify that she'd never want to marry at all? If not, I think you may have misunderstood her.

We have been best friends for 20 years and she has never believed in marriage. She isn’t nasty about/towards people that do get married, it’s just always been her personal opinion that “it’s just a piece of paper” and that it’s an outdated tradition and not something she would ever want.

When we were talking the other day she was being genuine about not wanting to get married, she said she just wants a ring.

So I’m afraid I don’t agree with what your told your friend OP, about living together and having a baby as showing a big demonstration of how committed her boyfriend is to her.

But a LOT of married people have affairs. Being married doesn’t mean a man is more committed to his wife than a man who isn’t married to his partner.

Men who are committed to their partners demonstrate it in many ways and getting married doesn’t suddenly mean he will treat his partner better or have more respect for their relationship.

I know by them not being married there is no legal commitment to each other but the fact they have bought a house together demonstrates he is serious about their relationship.

I guess I was just trying to tell her that she doesn’t need a (pointless) ring to feel like she matters to him.

@Turningtides I agree with you. So many mean bitches on here.

I would be advising her to give her child her surname and not name him as the father on the birth certificate

well that would be terrible advice, on the birth certificate front.

If they did then split, and she applied for maintenance it would take much longer as he could deny he was the father, and there would have to be DNA tests done etc.

Also the child deserves to know who its parents are.

I guess I was just trying to tell her that she doesn’t need a (pointless) ring to feel like she matters to him

no, she doesn't need it but that's what she wants she clearly told you what she wanted, and you pissed all over her bonfire.

You don't sound like much of a friend, OP.

While I kind of agree with you OP, and it's fine to have asked the question, you pushed the topic and argued when you really didn't need to. It's important to your friend, that's all you needed to know really. That's when you ask why, and she says why and you say oh right, and move the topic on. did you really think she was going to change her mind if you argued enough?

If I were you I'd apologise for pushing the topic and then not bring it up again.

Frankly, she sounds rather dim. She's having a baby from an unplanned pregnancy with someone who doesn't sound that interested, and despite her lack of interest in marriage (and I'm assuming she hasn't set in place any of the legal stipulations which would replicate as far as possible the conditions of marriage, because she thinks its 'just a piece of paper'), she wants a gesture which, without the intention to marry, is completely meaningless?

Wanting someone to propose to you and give you a ring when there's not the faintest intention to marry makes as much sense going out and buying a big white dress, naming bridesmaids and putting a deposit on a venue when there's no intention to marry.

I think for her the ring symbolises the commitment. I know people that have been engageged for decades. It shows to others that they are taken and more limited than bf a d gf. It gives them social capital and acceptance. It makes them feel like their partner has publically announced wanting to spend their life with them. Does it make sense? Nope, but neither does alot of things humans want.

trenchcoated well she co owns the house, and she is the main earner, and as long as she goes back to work after mat leave, and continues to be the main earner, she doesn't really need the protection of marriage.

The only thing she will miss out on is his pension if he dies, or any savings he might have etc.

for all we know, she might be better off not being married.

Maybe she's not as "dim" as you think.

If I were you I'd apologise for pushing the topic and then not bring it up again.

I have text her again to apologise this morning and repeated that I hadn’t meant to upset her but that I had just been surprised by what she told me considering her stance on marriage.

She text back this time time and said it was fine, she didn’t mean to get so pissed off and that she only reacted that way because she couldn’t see why I wasn’t more accepting/understanding of how she felt.

I repeated that I had just been taken aback because it wasn’t something I had ever envisaged her talking about but that if she wants a ring simply as a sign of commitment then I can understand her viewpoint.

She then said thanks and we made plans to meet up in a few days.

As has been advised though, I won’t be bringing up the topic again!!

Likely he has said he doesn't want to get married so she is saying she just wants a ring

@holidayhelpppp, yes, I read what the OP said about her financial circumstances, and it was the other things you mention that I was thinking of as marriage benefits. My sense of her dimness doesn't relate to those as frankly, this relationship doesn't have legs but to the idea that forcing someone (who from what the OP says doesn't want a baby, far less an engagement) into a tokenistic 'traditional' gesture will demonstrate his commitment. If he doesn't want to get married, and she doesn't want to get married, and neither of them intend to get married, a proposal is a joke ('Erm, would you marry me, if you wanted to get married?' 'Yes, only I don't ever want to!') and the ring is no more significant than a nice pair of earrings.

They jointly own their house and she is the main earner

So she needs financial advice on whether marriage is the best thing for her. If she has the higher asset/pension/earnings she could end up paying him if they divorce.

I agree with pp though. I think there is still a lot of societal pressure re. The social status of marriage.

If she wants that i can quite see how just wearing a ring- although i’d go straight for a “wedding” ring rather than engagement so others can judge more positively

I take great delight in not wearing rings, people can judge away!

Honestly, I share your views about an engagement that is never going to be a marriage but YABU. You were rude and judgmental to your friend, and she's reacting to that.

Your wide eyed 'but why?' question was a loaded one, and she's not an idiot so she picked up on the attitude and beliefs that sat behind it.

Apologise to your friend. And be supportive or MYOB in the future, she's given you a clear indication of how welcome your thoughts are.

trench its not significant to you, but it clearly is to her.

you don't know that the relationship doesn't have legs?

blimey, must be hard work being so judgemental!

I have never understood people's obsession with rings.

To me they are the worst example of materialism dressed up as romance.

The idea that "engagement" signals a deepened degree of commitment is self-deluding hogwash anyway. Having a sparkler on your finger isn't going to make your OH any less likely to cheat or to protect you financially if he does. All is does is create a status symbol for women for whom being kept is still an attractive proposition.

Marriage is a financial contract which historically was designed to make it harder for men to abandon their partners without financial support when they were raising kids. A wedding ring is a metaphor for this but even a wedding ring is no guarantee.

I've always thought engagement rings are old-fashioned and twee. If people like them, fair enough, but please don't kid yourselves they are going to protect you from heartbreak, cheating and financial abandonment.

you don't know that the relationship doesn't have legs?

blimey, must be hard work being so judgemental!

I know exactly what the OP has said:

The baby wasn’t planned and to be honest I think he wasn’t ready for that level of commitment never mind marriage

No, that doesn't sound as if it has longterm legs to me. A new baby can try the strongest and most long-established relationships even when planned and wanted -- an unplanned pregnancy with a man who 'isn't ready', and whose partner isn't happy with his level of commitment and wants empty romantic gestures he's not willing to give, sounds on fairly shaky territory.

As regards being judgemental - I'm not the OP trying to deal kindly with a friend. I am a stranger on the internet saying that one party wanting a ring and a proposal when neither party intends to get married is like insisting on being bought an expensive car accessory when you can't drive, don't own a car and don't plan to buy one.

plenty of couples have unplanned children and survive it. Plenty of couples have planned children and don't. You cant possibly know what will or wont happen based on one sentence from a woman who clearly doesn't know her friend as well as she thinks she does.

A ring in itself isn't pointless, if it means something to her, then why not? Shes not hurting anyone else.

I've been engaged to my partner for 28 years. We are not married and have no particular plans to get married in the foreseeable though we have never entirely ruled it out. We are largely indifferent to marriage and our children are in their early 20s and have my name because mine is marginally less boringly common than his and we were not prepared to double-barrel.

Obviously I cannot speak for a woman I do not know but I can tell you why we got engaged without having any particular desire to be married.

We did it to shut his parents the hell up because they didn't approve of us living together without being married. Plus it was an excuse to treat ourselves to some nice jewellery which we very rarely do.

In short it was outside pressure to conform, nothing whatsoever to do with our own, perfectly happy as it is, relationship.

I'm not saying this is the case for the OP's friend but choices are not made in a vacuum. It isn't always about the partners at all, it can be about wider family and keeping the peace.

Dh felt he was not ready to remarry having recently divorced but was still committed to a long term relationship. He bought me a simple eternity ring before we finally got engaged 8 years later and then married a couple of years after that.
My eternity ring is still most precious item even though its bay far the least flady and most inexpensive. It's the one that I've had longest and means the most. If I could only keep one thing it would be that.
A ring can definitely reflect commitment and some pregnant women maybe need to feel they are visibly part of a couple for some deep seated old fashioned need for societal acceptance perhaps?
Alternatively maybe they just use it as a good excuse to get that bit of bling they've always wanted!

plenty of couples have unplanned children and survive it. Plenty of couples have planned children and don't. You cant possibly know what will or wont happen based on one sentence from a woman who clearly doesn't know her friend as well as she thinks she does.

@holidayhelpppp, has this struck a nerve with you or something? You seem very invested in it. If it makes you happy, I will agree that it's possible the friend and her DP will be cooing over their engagement ring in fifty years with their grandchildren.

gaudy no, i'm engaged with a wedding planned and a much planned child.

I just don't see the need to be so mean about someone who just wants a ring, tbh.

Its entirely possible, anythings possible, it may well all end in tears (And you miserable gits can all rub your hands with glee)

but for now, what does it really matter if she wants a bloody ring or not if it makes her happy? regardless of what it means to anyone else?

Threads like this bring out the worst in women.

Nicely done with the texts OP :)