Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

To have asked what’s the point in a ring?!

80 replies

QueenofmyPrinces · 24/09/2019 14:21

I was talking to one of my friends the other day who is just over 20 weeks pregnant with her partner. They have been together for about 3 years and have lived together for the last 15 months.

We were chatting the other day about what she thinks the baby will look like (she knows she’s having a boy) and the topic of marriage came up.

She told me that all she wants is an engagement ring and she can’t work out why her partner won’t give her one. She said she isn’t bothered about getting married but she still wants for him to propose in order to prove his commitment to her. She just kept saying was “All I want is a ring.”

I asked her why she wanted him to give her an engagement ring seeing as she isn’t bothered about actually getting married and she took huge offence.

I didn’t say it nastily, I was just generally confused by her way of thinking. She then said that the proposal would be a demonstration of his commitment to the idea of marriage even though they aren’t actually fussed about doing it. She said she would feel like he was more committed to her if he gave her a ring.

I said that proposing and giving a ring isn’t the commitment part, it’s the marriage that cements that commitment, and the fact they live together and are having a baby is already quite a big demonstration of how committed to her he is.

She then got really huffy, made her excuses and left. I text her later that evening to apologise if I upset her but she didn’t reply.

Surely I’m not alone in thinking an engagement ring is pretty pointless if neither party are bothered about getting married?!

OP posts:

Actaea · 24/09/2019 16:01

She wants a pretty piece of jewellery and the social capital of having a ring on her finger. Some people still feel uncomfortable when they’re pregnant but their bare finger shows that the father still doesn’t want to legitimise their relationship.

Sparklyring · 24/09/2019 16:03

I'm another one who doesn't understand why people bother to get engaged if they don't plan to marry. I agree that some people see it as the next level of commitment which is just bonkers.

TheLovleyChebbyMcGee · 24/09/2019 16:04

Yeah I think PapayaCoconut has it right with this

I suspect she knows he doesn't want marriage but she wants to have a ring on her fingerso that other people can see that she is in a committed relationship. Like a consolation prize, if you will.

LucaFritz · 24/09/2019 16:05

Because some women still have a stone age mentality of wanting to be a man's possession plenty of other legal ways the ensure security should the other one die without marriage these day's

Actaea · 24/09/2019 16:09

she wants to have a ring on her fingerso that other people can see that she is in a committed relationship
When I was pregnant I felt really self conscious and judged if I went out and forgot to put my wedding ring on. Like it or not there is still a little stigma attached to being a single mother.

Graphista · 24/09/2019 19:52

"I said that proposing and giving a ring isn’t the commitment part, it’s the marriage that cements that commitment" on that you're right

"and the fact they live together and are having a baby is already quite a big demonstration of how committed to her he is." But THIS is nonsense!

She is EXTREMELY vulnerable being unmarried and a show of an engagement would be utterly meaningless!

Men by the million in the uk walk away from their kids without a backward glance and if the mother isn't married to the father she has precious little recourse if he does. Being married doesn't make a HUGE amount of difference on this score but it does make certain things easier/run more smoothly if/when things go wrong.

Living together - depends on the setup. If it's HIS house and she's not on the deeds/tenancy she has no more rights than a lodger and he can turf her out whenever he chooses for no reason at all other than he wants to.

She may have SLIGHTLY more rights if on a tenancy and better still if on deeds to mortgage.

Graphista · 24/09/2019 19:53

But quite honestly being unmarried and having children if (as is usually the case) she will be taking a drop in income (even if temporarily), a break in pension contributions and a half in her career longevity/progression, is imo foolish and irresponsible.

I don't believe for a SECOND she honestly doesn't want to get married, she's saving face because HE is the one that won't get married. More fool her for sacrificing her perfectly reasonable wishes to be with someone who isn't fully committed to her nor apparently cares about what she wants. I'd lay odds within 5 years they'll be split and he WILL be engaged if not married to someone else!

Seen this happen SO MUCH!

"If you haven't signed the contract, do you even have the job?

Just saying . . ." Exactly!

I wonder if your friend believes "common law marriage" has actual legal status?

"Like it or not there is still a little stigma attached to being a single mother." Totally agree - and I speak as a divorced single mother! My sister is also a single mother but has never been married. We've both experienced the stigma of single motherhood but she definitely gets it more than I do, especially as her kids have their dads surnames and she obviously doesn't.

Aprinceinapaupersgrave · 24/09/2019 19:58

I'm married but don't have an engagement or wedding ring. I can think of a million things I'd rather spend the money on.

Walnutwhipster · 24/09/2019 20:04

@CrystalShark I think she meant eternity but she definitely said maternity ring.

bunnypenny · 24/09/2019 20:06

She maybe thinks that he’s investing in their relationship (and her) by spending a lot of money on a ring. To some, that’s a huge sign of commitment and that, along with a child, would make her feel more secure secure? I dunno tho. Is he tight?

RitmoRatmo · 24/09/2019 20:10

I agree with you OP. It seems like what your friend is actually after would be served by a commitment ring. My DP and I have both been married before and aren’t in the position of being able to live together but we wanted to show our love for eachother and have a token from eachother to wear everyday so we chose rigs for eachother and wear them on our ring fingers of our right hands, as a private acknowledgement of our love and commitment to one-another.

But I wonder if your friend is perhaps wanting the stereotypical engaged/baby/marriage scenario because she’s pregnant and succumbing to social pressures to conform to this, without which she somehow feels short-changed of the made-up fairytale.

Shodan · 24/09/2019 20:21

I recently had a conversation with DP about getting married. I said I wasn't sure I wanted to get married again (done it twice already fgs), he said he wasn't sure either, but that he could get me a ring anyway.

It baffled me tbh. Even if we were going to get married, I probably wouldn't wear an engagement ring (I don't tend to wear jewellery much), so would rather save the money. Probably wouldn't even wear a wedding ring either tbh, for the same reason.

He then asked what I would describe him as, if we weren't married, in the context of introducing him to someone. He seemed a bit put out that I wouldn't introduce him as my husband, but as I pointed out, he wouldn't be my husband, so I didn't see why I would refer to him as such.

Anyway, after a lot more chitchat, it transpired that he wanted people to know we were in a committed relationship, even if it wasn't a marriage, hence the need for a ring. The ring, to him, was the identifier of that committed relationship.

Baffled me, but there you go. Perhaps your friend feels the same, as PPs have said.

TheFaerieQueene · 24/09/2019 20:25

I wonder if she actually does want to be married and you have touched a nerve. Saying she doesn’t could be the mask she is wearing to hide her real feelings.

WombatChocolate · 24/09/2019 20:38

I think she probably wants the world to know she is in a committed relationship as being pregnant can make her feel judged and feel people might consider she is a single pregnant woman. (I am not making a judgement by the way).

It may also be because she would like him to commit for her own happiness. That could mean engagement followed by marriage, but for now in a scenario where he doesn’t want to commit, the engagement itself would satisfy her.

So engagement would give her the personal commitment she’d like, especially at this time of pregnancy which can make women feel vulnerable.....and engagement with a ring provides public evidence of being in a committed relationship. I’d think these kind of things are behind her comments.

As a married person Op, with a DH who was willing and happy to get engaged and follow through to marriage, and who has that emotional security and also acknowledgement of the world to your relationship, you might forget how many women would like that commitment and don’t have it, and how these days with long term living together and having children outside of marriage, can sometimes feel a bit second class, even if many don’t and those that do don’t say it. And they certainly don’t say it to their married friends, especially those who are categorical that marriage is the sign of commitment....when they know it’s not close by for them.

Op I agree with what you said, but saying it might have been a bit insensitive. This friend is pregnant and would like more commitment from her man than she’s got or feels is likely. She’d be satisfied with engagement as a big gesture, even if not resulting in marriage. It prob sounded like you were belittling engagement as a stand-alone .....but it’s the best she thinks she can get. She probably felt a bit bewildered and hurt but can’t even articulate why - I know you didn’t say her relationship was inferior to yours, but she probably heard something along those lines.

Original poster

QueenofmyPrinces · 24/09/2019 21:35

They jointly own their house and she is the main earner.

The baby wasn’t planned and to be honest I think he wasn’t ready for that level of commitment never mind marriage.

I will try messaging her again in the morning to apologise again. We’ve been friends for so long and I hate to think I’ve unintentionally upset her.

OP posts:

Turningtides · 24/09/2019 21:49

I think this is such a mean-spirited and quite unpleasant thread tbh. All the pregnant friend has said is that she would like her partner to propose with a ring. Hardly the crime of the century is it?

Maybe she’s not thinking about marriage any time soon. She’s got enough on if this is her first baby. One thing at a time!

Why are there so many in MN who would portray this woman as desperate, shallow, misguided or that her partner will leave her? It’s depressing and spiteful reading.

I hope she gets a wonderful proposal and a fabulous ring. After the birth, when she gets back to her normal self and adjusts to her new life, then they can think about marriage. What’s the problem with that??

Original poster

QueenofmyPrinces · 24/09/2019 22:15

Well, neither of them actually want to get married which is probably the problem in your scenario....

I certainly didn’t mean to be mean spirited, I am just voicing my confusion as to why my friend would want an engagement ring when neither her, or her partner, are interested in getting married.

OP posts:

WombatChocolate · 25/09/2019 07:19

The thing is, you're taking her at face value when she says she doesn't want to get married, just engaged. Of course that could be true, but is quite unusual. Isn't it more likely she actually would like to get married but doesn't want to say that because it's so unlikely.....it's a self defence mechanism.

Thinking further, if as you say, the pregnancy wasn't planned and the level of commitment from him is still fairly low level, perhaps she does feel more ambiguous about it. Perhaps she means she wishes she were in a more committed relationship and other people knew she were too. A ring could just be the outward sign of that. But perhaps it's a bit theoretical because she knows the reality with him at the moment isn't that level of commitment and therefore doesn't expect to marry him anytime soon.

CiliatedEpithelium · 25/09/2019 07:35

I too suspect she would like to get married and you have misjudged this a bit OP. No way would she refuse if he bought her a sparkler and went down on one knee and had already booked the register office.
You have hit a nerve is all. People say a lot of stuff. Most of it is bollocks. Learn to smile and nod a lot more is my advice. It smooths the path of your own life Especially in situations where your own life is not affected one iota.

PlaymobilPirate · 25/09/2019 07:51

I tell people I'm not interested in marriage. It's less painful than saying dp isn't interested in marriage. I'm hurt about it and it's had a huge impact on me emotionally but I do my being sad in private .

greenflamingo · 25/09/2019 07:55

Maybe she’s feeling a bit vulnerable and unloved and wants him to make a bit of a fuss of her and tell her/show her he loves her? Her reaction definitely suggests she feels vulnerable (and maybe slightly hormonal).

firstimemamma · 25/09/2019 08:01

Perhaps your friend meant that she isn't fussed about getting married just yet but instead eventually (years away) and just thought it would be nice to wear an engagement ring in the mean time. Did she actually specify that she'd never want to marry at all? If not, I think you may have misunderstood her.

An engagement is obviously not the same as a marriage but imo it is still a big sign of commitment and I don't think your friend is wrong to want that.

BeanBag7 · 25/09/2019 08:08

I agree with you OP. What's the point I'm being "engaged" if you have no intention of getting married? And if the boyfriend knows they won't be getting married, he isn't showing any higher level of commitment.

In my view, buying a house together and having a child together are much bigger commitments than buying a ring.

EmeraldShamrock · 25/09/2019 08:08

She probably would like him to pop the question and get married.
It sounds like she knows he doesn't want to marry his pregnant gf therefore the engagement is a consolation prize.
She probably got upset as you brought it to light.
It doesn't matter if she wants to get engaged or married unless he wants it to.

PurBal · 25/09/2019 08:09

I agree with you. To me being engaged isn't really a thing and personally I hated it. Thank goodness it only lasted 6 months. I feel that what's the point if there is no immediate intention to marry. That said I did express this opinion to a male friend and he got very defensive. That I was implying he was not serious about his partner who he owns a house with and has a child with. I guess I realised I came off strong and each to their own.

Flip

1 2 3 4