I'm not surprised Thomas Cook have gone under

[Burningcheeks]

Their service was shambolic. I actually got up & walked out mid-booking because they gave me no confidence at all. The staff didn't know their arse from their elbow. I was trying to book one of their packages to the Monaco Grand Prix & it was costing thousands. They were making a complete balls of it. If that was happening on the shop floor I wonder what else was happening higher up? I feel very sorry for all those let down & the enormous number of ensuing job losses.

FFS there is always denial on MN that anyone older does not use the internet. 2.6 million people aged over 75 have never used the internet. Its great if your elderly family members do, but plenty don't. And plenty of these people do still go on holiday.

Yes, it is ridiculous. My parents and some of their friends in their 80s and 90s use the internet but plenty don't.

I'm so surprised at all the comments saying nobody books package holidays any more. We've booked packages the last 3 years running (Thomas Cook and then Tui this year) as we just found it simpler, there was little difference in the cost, and it meant the kids clubs were UK run (and accepted children under 4).

I've previously booked complex trips separately, including a round the world trip with my husband back in 2006 when it was still quite difficult to do everything online. For that trip we booked multiple hotels/hostels directly, either by phone or email, or simply turned up hoping they had availability. So I'm more than capable, I just choose not to 🤷🏼‍♀️

And agree with a pp about companies buying up the smaller companies. Our high Street has been transformed for the worse through companies expanding, buying up independents, and the belief that every chain had to have a presence on the High Street making them bland carbon copies of each other with no personality . Then the unbelievably high costs of running a bricks and mortar business these days combined with Internet shopping and the lack of knowledge about how to change with the times causing many to collapse, leaving empty units and charity shops. It's sad but I just don't think there's any way back for the high Street now.

I agree that the ageism on this thread is disgusting. I suspect the posters being rude about older people aren’t even old enough to remember how holidays were booked before the advent of budget airlines and the internet

It's not ageist to state the elderly people are less likely to use the internet. It wasn't around until the 90s and even then many people didn't need to use it to work so never did bother using it. You can't extrapolate what you do at 61 (which is hardly elderly) to people who are (i.e. those over 80).

Horses for courses. I don't enjoy researching or booking loads of different stuff here and there online. I like package hols and cruises, too.

Since the survey began in 2011, adults aged 75 years and over have consistently been the lowest users of the internet. In 2011, of all adults aged 75 years and over, 20% were recent internet users, rising to 47% in 2019. However, recent internet use in the 65 to 74 years age group increased from 52% in 2011 to 83% in 2019, closing the gap on younger age groups (Figure 1).

Nearly everyone who is 61 and has worked, is still working. Of course most people this age use the internet. But plenty of people 80 plus on cruises and similar.

Also as you get older, physically using a keyboard gets much physically harder.
Yes I know you can voice activate, but IME it only works for those with very clear English accents. It never works for me.

@ItIsWhatItIsInnit Google and online forums have their uses but my parents were planning a 4-6 week holiday in a country on the other side of the word they've never visited before. On that basis I think using a specialist agency made sense. Local situations change so the (subjective) advice you get from a random on TripAdvisor who visited a country 2 years ago might not be correct now.

Although they are retired I don't think they had the time or inclination to plan this trip from scratch with just online help. They Googled for general information so they went into agency armed with a draft itinerary but there was no way they were going to spend ££££ on the strength of online advice alone.

I see ageism has reared it's ugly head again.
A bit off the point of the thread, but I was using computers in/from the early 80s at work. We had an intranet system and information retrieval systems that were operated by ms-dos, so I was probably using computers before some of you were born. We (h and I) are quite capable of booking our own holidays online (flights and hotels). If we want something a bit out of the ordinary we use a specialist travel company, again online. We are in our mid 60's. I don't know why a large proportion of mumsnet seem to regard anyone over 60 as virtually gaga.
I would agree that the Internet has sounded the death knell for many travel agents, but TC has been in trouble for years. Their response when those poor children died of CO poisoning in Greece was terrible. That was enough to put me off the company for good.

@Frenchfancy

"I think Brexit has more to do with it than the staff on the ground. Poor exchange rates and people being reluctant to travel because of brexit uncertainty will have been the final nail in the coffin of a company already on their knees."
Their revenue decreased significantly from 2011 to 2016 and then increased in 2017 and 2018. So, it does not appear to be as a result of Brexit affecting consumer confidence. If Brexit has affected it, if has only been in a positive manner, as sales have increased significantly from 2016.

Revenue:
2011 £9,809m
2012 £9,195m
2013 £9,315m
2014 £8,588m
2015 £7,834m
2016 £7,810m
2017 £9,006m
2018 £9,584m

Source www.statista.com/statistics/564727/thomas-cook-group-revenue/

@longearedbat RTFT no one is saying that about people only in their mid 60s, they are talking about people 75 plus and using government stats to show there are a lot of elderly people who have never used the internet in this age group.

@idontwanttotalk I have no idea if Brexit has had an impact. But if it had I would have expected the impact to be in 2019 when we had planned to leave. I know people who did not go abroad in Easter as they usually did, because of worries about Brexit.

Our last 4 or 5 annual family holidays were with TC, never had a problem, I always booked on their website, but any time I've had need to call them they were helpful and polite.

I feel very sad for all the staff impacted by this.

as sales have increased significantly from 2016.

Is some of that apparent increase attributable to the pound being weakened since the referendum? More pounds needed to buy the same holiday, rather than just more holiday being sold which is what you suggest. OTOH if the prices didn't go up because of the exchange rate erosion, then that will have contributed to the failure.

I think Brexit has more to do with it than the staff on the ground

TC was lumbered with huge amounts of debt from past restructures and ill-conceived takeovers/mergers. It was a financial basket case that couldn't service it's debts. None of that is recent, it goes back many years.

I think that people over 80 are less likely to use the internet particularly if not very educated

While I would not have added the "not very educated" section to this statement, my own personal experience with over 80s in my own family is that they do not use the internet, nor mobile phones, nor computers of any kind. Nor, it seems, do most of their friends. Mine refuse to have anything to do with it at all no matter how much it could benefit them. They grew up with pen and paper and simply refuse to change. Not averse though to asking me to do research for them though, or my sister.

They aren't necessarily uneducated in my experience. My own family group are retired teachers who are in their mid eighties.

I'm not saying that no over 80s use the internet because of course that wouldn't be true. Just that a higher proportion of that age group don't. My parents and their friends regard it with deep suspicion and lots of eye-rolling.

I think lots of people have some bizarre ideas about what package holidays actually are. You’re not collected from the airport and herded round in a huge group for two solid weeks singing “ere we go” and swigging lager you know!

The main reason to book a package is to have ABTA or ATOL protection. After losing a very expensive (to us) holiday to Florida days before we were due to go following the collapse of TravelCityDirect, I would never book separately again. A package can be as little as a flight and one day’s car hire, as long as it is booked and paid for together you get the protection.

I also think that some people don’t realise that Thomas Cook wasn’t just shops in the high street, so the argument that internet travel brought it down doesn’t hold up. I’ve used Thomas Cook several times and I’ve never set foot in one of their travel agents. We’ve just come back from a holiday in the Canaries that I booked through them online, for the simple reason they had the hotel I wanted and flew from the airport I wanted, at a much cheaper price than anyone else.

I also think that some people don’t realise that Thomas Cook wasn’t just shops in the high street

True, but they didn't move with the times - they continued to try to do it all, rather than concentrate and specialise on just one or two things.

Look at Ryanair, Easyjet and Jet2 - they don't have High St travel agencies. Perhaps they could see the trends in how people book their holidays?

Perhaps TC should have concentrated more on direct selling their own flights/holidays via internet channels instead of selling other firms' flight and holidays via their own high street shops making a tiny profit on each. They were actively pushing customers to their rivals. I think their high street travel agent division should have closed down a few years ago and that may have helped save the rest of the group.

Trailfinders are excellent, used them for around 25 years.

Really sad re TC, another old business gone by the wayside.

My DF is 86 and can't get him off the internet!

Trailfinders are excellent, used them for around 25 years

Totally agree - definitely one of the more professional outfits out there

I'm extremely sad about TC, mostly for the staff and all the travellers who've been badly affected, but also I admit because they did after all pioneer the package holiday - somehow it seems the end of an era

Most sickening of all, though, is that we can be quite sure the directors looked after themselves first and got their money out in good time

I hadn't used them for a few years until earlier this year - they were fantastic. Had a far worse experience with Tui for the next booking. I do think it's such a shame for this to have happened.
Personally I don't like the idea of booking everything separately as you could end up getting shafted when things go wrong. I'd much rather book with a proper travel agent and know everything is sorted.

As well as the employees who will lose their jobs, and the holiday makers, whose plans will be spoilt, we should not forget the hoteliers who get paid in arrears who will also be worrying about this.
I am not sure we can blame this on Brexit, as holiday firms have gone out of business before, or merged and been taken over.
I suspect that TC failed to adapt properly to changing business practises.
There is still a case for package holidays, but I guess that more will be organised on line, rather than in a shop.

But being clobbered with a third extra in fuel prices due to Brexit won’t have helped and will have had an impact.

We weren’t impressed with Trailfinders, they were clueless, incorrect and recommended flights that were expensive.

I prefer BA. They are really good re advice and you can latch on hotels and car hire to get discounts. Trailfinders coukdnt answer any of our questions, went home and a half hour google followed by a phone call to BA answered all our questions, got us cheaper flights and car hire, and a hotel that did tick our boxes which apparently didn’t exist according to Trail Finders.

The thing is it's far cheaper to book accommodation separately via Booking.com or Agoda .You normally don't have to pay upfront and can cancel very close to the booking date. Then book a budget airline separately. You can view the accommodation reviews as well.
More and more people are doing this nowadays.

he thing is it's far cheaper to book accommodation separately via Booking.com or Agoda .You normally don't have to pay upfront and can cancel very close to the booking date. Then book a budget airline separately.

That is often the case, yes, but not always, as we discovered when booking last year's holiday.