Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

The elite will not send their kids to the local compreshensive school.

Well I dunno. The elite are likely to live in elite areas, and won't be faced with the sort of comprehensive where the kids throw chairs and swear at the teachers.

Oh dear Cendrillon, we were playing badminton

We could have been playing the Eton Wall Game, but I still smashed it!

The Human Rights act has a number of derogations. Art one has 'except in the public interest'.

It won't save private schools.

Duestothedirt. And if they don’t already live in those areas, then they’ll soon move to them to ensure their children get into the best state schools available.

Guess what happens then? Yup, house prices in those areas soar and everyone else is priced out, perpetuating the ‘elite’ nature and pushing everyone else into the low performing schools.

Yet some people are still arguing that closing independent schools will improve state education for all...

'Disappointing as it may be to the average mc parent, they aren't providing tutoring to help mc dc get places at grammar'

Huh?
It wouldn't cross my mind that any private school would be doing this, and most people live in areas where grammars don't exist, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm pleased for you

Dorset

From i ve read, these schools wont be closed, they will be integrated into the state sector, so at the risk of repeating myself, the children already studying will stay there but those entering will be subject to local admissions criteria.

It will also be done over many years, so there will be no sudden change.

Jasjas. And as you’ve repeatedly avoided answering...how is that going to be funded do you think?

I’m pleased you’re pleased

Someone said: Funny that nobody seems to think involved and capable state parents should opt for the worst school in the locality in order to improve it fantastic and very relevant point

Many involved and capable state parents, such as myself, send their child to their catchment school, which is usually only 1. In fact I have 2 choices for secondary but I am choosing the less well regarded option, as it is a newish school and needs the community to support it. Not everybody is just in it for themselves.

Yes I support it and my dc won't benefit.

My dc would greatly benefit from smaller classes, tailored help, and my dc and I would benefit form that accountability and feed back private dc mostly get because the parents are paying the piper.

Sadly we can't access it and my dc won't get the help they need. How on earth could I however hope to stop someone else who perhaps could afford it for their struggling child not access it? How petty and mean?

Barbar. But that’s still your choice. Nobody else is telling you you should do that and removing any other options you may have.

If it were to happen overnight we would move 15 miles down the road and pay the housing premium to be in the catchment of one of the best state schools. Either that, or DD would get her long held dream to be sent away to boarding school in New England. We simply wouldn’t stay where we currently live.

With the batshit crazy proposal to limit university places to 7% for private school students, DD would also likely end up with her dream of uni in the States. I’m going to assume it won’t come to that.

On the back of the proposals, DH has announced that he would immediately ban private schools if he could which has made for some interesting conversations in our house!

I think the proposal to ban them has been more divisive and caused more bad feeling than just having them existing alongside state schools as they have been. Labour really are turning into the nasty party.

Anyway, your opinion poll didn't really answer my question. See the research in the link below, which is a bit more related to the question I asked.

www.lse.ac.uk/Events/Events-Assets/PDF/2019/01-LT/20190211-Engines-of-Privilege-presentation.pdf

"It is unfair that some people with a lot of money get a better education and life chances for their children by paying for a private school?"

63% Agree
18% Disagree
19% Neutral

Oh please, you'd get the same answer if you asked whether it was "unfair" that some people with a lot of money get to take private jets or buy big houses in Mayfair. Far fewer people would take the much more radical step of agreeing to ban the use of private jets or the purchase of big houses.

Asking about "unfairness" is little more than eliciting an emotional response. The poll I quoted was commissioned in direct response to Labour's proposals, and asks about support for a concrete policy, i.e. a course of action, which is after all what the real world runs on.

Lapeste. I don’t think even you know what question you were asking!

For reference, it was whether anyone who doesn’t benefit from private education supports it.

Both surveys show that the answer is yes, bearing in mind that only c7% attend independent schools.

'Is there anyone who doesn't go to private schools, or is never likely to go support them?'

Yes. I think education is a Good Thing in its own right and I am uncomfortable with having a state monopoly on it.
I think inequality is a Bad Thing but I think we have barely scratched the surface of what could be done to lessen the harmful effects of our existing system without throwing up all the problems that a ban would cause. And as a ban would not be a magic bullet to end educational inequality in any case, I think we need to look in more detail at how the inequality functions. The Sutton Trust does some pretty sound work in this area.

Or to put it another way: it's perfectly possible that a large majority of the population believes that X is unfair, and that a large majority of that same population believes that banning X is too extreme a measure to take.

It's quite revealing of the left-wing mind to assume that there is a direct crossover from emotion to action. The opposite is often the case.

Or to put it another way: it's perfectly possible that a large majority of the population believes that X is unfair, and that a large majority of that same population believes that banning X is too extreme a measure to take.

That was rather my point.

I’m a private school parent and I recognise that private schools are unfair, but I don’t want to ban them.. I am also state educated and before we started using the private system, I didn’t want them banned then either.

Have now read LaPeste’s last post and think I’ve mislaid their point somewhere...

Reality is banning private schools isn't going to happen for various reasons.

What Labour should propose and might actually get backing, would be to raise state schools standards to the same level as private schools.

Reduce class sizes, to 20 max in a class or ensure every class has two teachers / small tutorial sessions.

This would have the effect of pulling the standards up, reducing the advantage of private ed.

However it's a pie in the sky idea as nobody will want to pay the tax required to fund it.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel,
Fair enough. I accept your point of view there. Still, the Sutton Trust is doing interesting work, and it recognizes the problem of privilege in the UK, and identifies independent schooling as a significant component of inequality.

That was rather my point.

Well, since the upshot is that the general population doesn’t support a ban, then I’m glad we’re in agreement!