Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

Well, since the upshot is that the general population doesn’t support a ban, then I’m glad we’re in agreement!

Yes, indeed. It would seem most people don't support independent education, yet at the same time, the majority don't support a ban, which is pretty consistent with my view on the matter. I've never supported a ban.

I am pretty entertained at all the rich people here panicking at the thought of their darling children getting a normal education like the rest of the country 😂😂😂 god forbid these children aren't brought up in a sea full of privilege.

Well, we arent panicking, because it won't happen. It's impossible to implement. Anyway, we'll be done in 4 or 5 years, so my grandchildren will benefit from the amazing free education we'll have in 15 years.

countess What I mean is that they aren't going to already well resourced schools with well supported pupils to offer icing on the cake.

Eg dc's peers from state primary were in the last few years of the old sats levels. Generally, the more deprived schools didn't have the resources to provide consistent higher level work or teach L6, so dc's school filled that gap. Whereas they don't provide additional on top as a matter of course to schools that already have those resources.

And we don't have grammars either really, but there's one within a reasonable commute for some within the radius of dc's school, and others slightly further away that parents have been known to move nearer to if dc are offered places. Although grammar isn't really my point, more that they focus on educational gaps rather than additional teaching for mc dc.

barbar as dorset says, that's your choice, nobody is suggesting you have a moral obligation to do so. Plus, there's a big difference between doing that, and finding the worst school possible, which is likely to be undersubscribed and perfectly possible as a first choice. Not to mention that my own experience with state schools means I don't personally judge a school based on results or ofsted alone.

lapeste the Sutton trust also identified the inequality in state education, iirc comprehensives in particular. Shall we abolish the better of those too?

I don’t personally judge a school on results or Ofsted either.

the Sutton trust also identified the inequality in state education, iirc comprehensives in particular. Shall we abolish the better of those too?

No

Back to the practicalities...so if dds school became a state school,.funded by the state. Who would pay for the upkeep of the pool, the astros, the climbing wall, the ancient buildings, the athletics track, the stables,
the woodland? Would the state pay for all the maintenance and if so would it have to give other, existing state schools the same money? Or would they just let it run itself down?

I have no skin in the private school game. I am quite ambivalent about them, and feel anyway that the major advantage is not academic but social (often for the parents).

However, do I wish to see them abolished? No - because it's the principle of the matter. You cannot steal private property. And if you sequester a private business's property, then it's one small step to doing the same with private houses and my pathetic ISA savings (because it's too complicated to get money from the rich...).

@Trewser exactly! Honestly some utterly risible comments on here. Someone likened the theft of assets to HS2 compulsory purchase..! We are not talking about a row of 1960s semis here. We are talking in many cases about parks and estates and in a fair few cases, about stately homes - some with chapels and churches attached - and many of which were initially turned into schools to pay for their upkeep! Honestly.....Do grow up!

trewser Perhaps his new land tax will take care of that. Or maybe they'll be exclusively used for the dc of high ranking comrades with the money diverted from the schools of those less equal. Maybe Jeremy's money fairy will fly in on a unicorn and fund it.

Dsd has finished school this summer, she has proposed buying it after its been rundown and auctioned off for peanuts. And then using it as a base for the tutoring and home ed community she will run from it. Apparently she thinks it could be a much quicker way up the education career ladder post university than the current plan!

@Dorsetdays

And as you’ve repeatedly avoided answering...how is that going to be funded do you think?

Sorry, but no one has asked me that, however, i did say early in this thread that there is money to cut higher rate tax, corporation tax, both if used for education, would provide about 18 billion, year on year, we've also magicked up 7 billion for Brexit and thats before we get on to abolishing IHT.

As we've already competitive tax rates, no need to cut these is there?

Honestly some utterly risible comments on here. Someone likened the theft of assets to HS2 compulsory purchase..! We are not talking about a row of 1960s semis here

Really? HS2 contractors have already spent 600m on compulsory purchase, including a stately home and ancient forest and that's before we get to further expansion.

Heathrow will consume 800 homes, inc an entire village, hardly a few 1960s semis....do grow up and check your facts before posting.

Oh yes both these schemes destroy all before them, Labours plan in most cases if not all, would still leave them as working schools.

@AsTheWorldTurns

I'm sorry I am not familiar with your imaginary version of the Human Rights Act that includes "a lot of stuff that has zero resemblance to human rights e.g. the right to housing and so forth." Is this the version written by the Daily Mail?

Which are the paragraphs you object to?

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/contents

jas so in this mythical world where state education has adequate funding, exactly which children get the ex private school buildings and facilities?

Labours plan in most cases if not all, would still leave them as working schools.

The schools would be “working” in the same way an IPad “works” after being dropped from an aeroplane...

I am pretty entertained at all the rich people here panicking at the thought of their darling children getting a normal education like the rest of the country 😂😂😂 god forbid these children aren't brought up in a sea full of privilege

Yeah, fuck all those kids who have struggled in state schools, victims of bullying, kids with special needs, not to mention all those thousands of parents scraping together school fees to do the best for their bullied, special needs offspring. How dare they make choices that suit their individual needs. Serves ‘em right, eh? Thinking they’re better than the rest of us..

Labours plan in most cases if not all, would still leave them as working schools

Many private schools teachers will quit. There is already a recruitment and retention crisis. This is hardly going to help, is it?

Why are posters so aghast at parents buying educational privilege for their children?

It’s what lots of families do when they move to an area with better state schools. Their financial wherewithal buys them a home in a more desirable area where the schools are preferable.

How is paying school fees different?

@Sotiredofthislife

Yeah, fuck all those kids who have struggled in state schools, victims of bullying, kids with special needs, not to mention all those thousands of parents scraping together school fees to do the best for their bullied, special needs offspring. How dare they make choices that suit their individual needs. Serves ‘em right, eh? Thinking they’re better than the rest of us..

The majority of students at private schools do not fall into any of these categories. Don't try make out they do.

I'm just laughing at the pure disgust I'm seeing in some replies that their child may face getting a normal education and be brought down to the level of educational opportunities that 93% of other children in this country get. Speaks volumes really.

@escapade1234

Why are posters so aghast at parents buying educational privilege for their children?

It’s what lots of families do when they move to an area with better state schools. Their financial wherewithal buys them a home in a more desirable area where the schools are preferable.

How is paying school fees different?

Rich breeds rich, poor breeds poor. People don't seem to care about the other side when they're on the privileged side. Typical I'm all right Jack attitude. One of the core reasons why this country is going down the shithole.

Moving into the catchment area of a good state school is another example of this but on a smaller scale. At least it brings the inequality down to a fairer level. Good state schools are much more accessible to the less privileged than a 15k a year private school.

Moving into the catchment area of a good state school is another example of this but on a smaller scale.
there is one ofsted outstanding primary school with good facilities within 10 miles of put house. houses within the usual admission area are 100k more expensive than other houses, and that is for relatively small 1970s build houses. the demographics of this school are on average on 6 digits income, which is more than at my son’s private school.
in the school in the least affluent area, less than 15% children reach national average. State schools are about as unfair as it gets, private schools are a drop in the ocean.

Moving into the catchment area of a good state school is another example of this but on a smaller scale. At least it brings the inequality down to a fairer level. Good state schools are much more accessible to the less privileged than a 15k a year private school

To get nearer to our (only) catchment school that we didn’t get in to (0.7 miles away). We would have to add more in price to a house than we have spent in 9 years of prep school fees. That isn’t any more accessible to the less privileged!

@JacquesHammer same for us! putting 2 kids through prep school is cheaper than a house in catchment of the (only) good school....

I'm just laughing at the pure disgust I'm seeing in some replies that their child may face getting a normal education and be brought down to the level of educational opportunities that 93% of other children in this country get. Speaks volumes really

Speaks volumes how?

I haven't seen any 'disgust'. Dd was in the state system until year 9. She was fine and the teachers were really great. It wouldn't be the end of the world if she went back to it, but she and I would rather she didn't have to.

(add on to my last post: we now live in a cheapish area, our 3 bedroom house was about 180k cheaper than a 3 bedroom next to the good school (intake: 500 m. we live 800 m away). prep school fees for 2 kids are quite a bit less than that! especially uf you figure in not needed extra tutoring, music lessons, clubs etc, and even more if you consider the better wrap around provision

BBC is reporting this morning that 1/4 secondary pupils is tutored.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-49826715

Presumably that form of buying advantage would have to go, and the parents would then be free to redistribute their spending?