Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

The elite will not send their kids to the local compresive school.

There has to be a very line between HS by a parent, HS by a tutor and HS a group of children by a tutor. - is that where it becomes a school in a private house?

Which in turn becomes very difficult to regulate or inspect.

Cendrillon

As you say, we are no longer talking about the declared spiteful intentions of a Conservative government in power.

As you say, it didn't look good for Mrs May's Conservative government, but there was no great outcry from Conservative MPs or voters.

You want to disregard that, and talk about what you think might or might not happen with some potential future government.

I'm glad to see that, now you think a Labour government is on the cards, you are a supporter of the Human Rights Act.

As you say, it didn't look good for Mrs May's Conservative government, but there was no great outcry from Conservative MPs or voters.

Perhaps because no one envisaged that the Labour party would choose to launch a vicious attack on our human rights? You know, the party that has spent years telling us that human rights are the most important thing in the world? Was that all a lie then?

'Yep, no more bursaries, no more sharing of their facilities, so no more kids swimming, hockey, rugby clubs. No teachers going to schools in deprived areas and helping. No local primaries invited for drama, arts and music workshops. No local theatre and performance space. No local 6th formers invited for Oxbridge interview classes. Fuck all that privileged bollocks.'

Tbh this stuff doesn't figure much in your average state school child's experience. I have 3 kids in the state sector and the only time any of them have benefited from the existence of local private schools was when ds2 was selected for a gifted writers day at a local prep school, and we had to pay £40 for that.

Not that I would abolish private schools, for many of the reasons stated on the thread, but this isn't really one of them. You wouldn't notice any public benefit to speak of from the private schools round here, though I assume they must do something.

A private school (and a superior education) isn't a human right is it?

Because if it is, then v high % of british children are not getting it.

Tbh this stuff doesn't figure much in your average state school child's experience oh well fuck it then. Why bother? Us privileged wankers will be only too pleased to shut you lot out completely.

Isn't that the narrative that you prefer?

I don't know what your problem is with me, Trewser, but you are being unnecessarily rude.

A private school (and a superior education) isn't a human right is it?

Because if it is, then v high % of british children are not getting it.

Well...

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/times-letters-labour-s-hostility-to-independent-schools-pm33g3jp9

Sir, It is decades since the Labour Party sought to abolish independent schools and create a state monopoly (“Labour’s private school plans ‘will damage the state sector for no gain’ ”, Sep 20). In 1982 David Pannick and I advised the school governing bodies that Labour’s plan would violate the European Convention on Human Rights and its first protocol. Our opinion was published. No one disputed our advice and the policy was dropped.

And in case you're wondering, David Pannick is now the Lord Pannick who just defeated the Government 11-0 in the Supreme Court...

Countess DC’s school does outreach in some areas with what you could call “the average state” school (sharing facilities etc) but a lot of their efforts target the schools that would benefit the most- e.g. right now they are recruiting a Computing Science teacher who will work half time at DCs school and then through their outreach programme, half time at a school in one of the most deprived areas of the city (and the school is pretty much at the bottom of the league table in Scotland). IMO, that’s where they can make a real difference and I fully support this approach.

Tbh this stuff doesn't figure much in your average state school child's experience

oh well fuck it then. Why bother? Us privileged wankers will be only too pleased to shut you lot out completely

You re not helping the stereotypical image of a private school parent are you?

Isn't that the narrative that you prefer?

No, we the people, the great unwashed peasants, are going to take your schools, burn them down and throw you and your children into the flames.

I'm glad to see that, now you think a Labour government is on the cards, you are a supporter of the Human Rights Act.

You can be a supporter of human rights and not support the politicised version of the Human Rights act which includes a lot of stuff that has zero resemblance to human rights e.g. the right to housing and so forth.

The right to property is a natural right.

A private school (and a superior education) isn't a human right is it?

Of course it's not, but one's right to property (i.e not to have it seized by Corbyn) and a private family life where you make your own decisions for your own children would certainly fall under human rights.

'IMO, that’s where they can make a real difference and I fully support this approach.'

Totally agree.
The school my brothers went to had links with some schools in the East End that went back a hundred years, to 'muscular Christianity' and the school mission. (Would have been nicer if they hadn't referred to the exchange visits as the 'proles' coming to visit - hopefully that at least will have changed since then.)

why so aggressive? Surely you can make a point without being rude?

Jasjas your ‘So, once again you're wrong.’ comment was pretty rude.

I'm fully aware that some schools pay only lip service to charity and others need to improve. But many do a great deal. However unless you have firsthand experience, you are unlikely to know which is which.

Dc's school does little, if any outreach with the types of school most mc dc attend. Disappointing as it may be to the average mc parent, they aren't providing tutoring to help mc dc get places at grammar, encouraging them all to apply for small bursaries or offering free sports clubs. But they are very hands on in schools with more deprived catchments. And community wise anything the school does, or anything the pupils are encouraged to volunteer with is aimed at those in genuine need.

Surprising as it perhaps is to those determined to malign the private sector, even then it isn't publicly announced. Teachers and pupils aren't introducing themselves as rich people from the private school, honouring the peasants with the crumbs. No doubt some parents and secondary age dc are fully aware of the school, but the average primary pupil will only know that Mrs. X comes in to help with maths, or x,y and z come and listen to them read. Ditto community wise. It isn't 'greetings my dear underclass, one hopes you are grateful to swim in our vair expensive pool. Fyi our fees are no doubt more than your parents salary'. Simply x school know they go to x place for swimming lessons.

And yy re how insulting it is to other parents to imply we can do so much better than they to improve state schools. Funny that nobody seems to think involved and capable state parents should opt for the worst school in the locality in order to improve it, oh no, it's entirely understandable they'll pick the best school at their disposal. But somehow it will help if we swell the ranks at the best state schools.

Tbh, I think most of the hatred towards private comes from those that already profit by the huge variance in state education. It's quite ok for them to use their privilege to do the best for their dc, but when we do the same and pay for private, they can't deal with the fact someone else might have something better than them. One rule for them, one for everyone else.

Crikey, are you are all still arguing? The summary, as far as I can tell is that

a) Everyone knows that private schools are unfair
b) Those who benefit from these unfair advantages (or their children) support private schools
c) Abolishing private schools is very very difficult, if not impossible.

Is there anyone who doesn't go to private schools, or is never likely to go support them?

Funny that nobody seems to think involved and capable state parents should opt for the worst school in the locality in order to improve it fantastic and very relevant point

Last sentence should read

Is there anyone who (or whose children) doesn't benefit from private education, or is never likely to benefit from private education, a supporter?

Is there anyone who doesn't go to private schools, or is never likely to go support them?

I’m so glad you asked that question!

mobile.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1176232035905679365

For banning private schools: 22%
Against banning private schools: 50%

Oh dear!

That's not what I asked, is it?

Of course it's not, but one's right to property (i.e not to have it seized by Corbyn) and a private family life where you make your own decisions for your own children would certainly fall under human rights

The state seizes assets for various building projects, such as for HS2, and will take 1000s of homes to expand Heathrow.... where is their right to property?

Lapeste. And you clearly haven’t read the posts on this very thread from state school parents saying they are more than happy for independent schools to exist, for parents to have a choice in their child’s education and for them to exercise those rights.

Or the posts from those parents who understand that closing all independent schools won’t improve state education.

But those posts obviously don’t fit your narrative.

Ironically, a local, very well regarded private school uses my childs state school sports facilities. Their school is all historic and town centre based so they dont have pitches. I presume they pay us.

That's not what I asked, is it?

What you asked (somewhat ungrammatically) was whether anyone who does not directly benefit from private schools supports them.

As you can see, a YouGov poll of the general population (most of whom do not use private schools) finds that 50% oppose a ban, whereas only 22% support one.

Game, set, and match!

Oh dear Cendrillon, we were playing badminton