Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

This is not Labour policy

It’s been passed by the Labour Comintern Conference, so it will most certainly become policy. Unless Labour’s lying about deciding policy at conference?

Oh, if it’s just a few people whose education gets destroyed, then who cares, right?

How do other countries manage? why are private schools treated as charities? they are businesses.

The facilities that will go into the state sector will enhance education for the 97%.

So, the 3 nearest comps to me, none have a swimming pool, yet all the private schools have them and charge top dollar to use them.... so ordrinary tax payers are splashing out to subsidise the wealthy at the expense of their own children.

If private schools had behaved more responsibly, then perhaps this policy wouldn't be enacted... so over to you!

I use private education so I have skin in the game, so to speak. I use private education because I think it is better than state education.

Which brings me back to my earlier comparison of other forms of privilege, which might seem like an unfair comparison, but I don't see a huge difference.

Why not bring all sport into schools at a decent level instead - part of the problem here started with the big sports fields sell off decades ago

Part of the problem is that if the politicians (and their friends) had children at the schools with the playing fields, they might be less keen to sell them off.

I personally think it's a disgrace that the Royal Family don't set an example by sending their children to state schools. A great counterexample is the Netherlands, where the current children of the King go to a state school (no doubt it's a good school, but still, I think it sends an important message).

Most top sportspeople were privately educated because they got scholarships to independent schools

No they didn't, they'd never get noticed in the state sector, they might get help once in the private sector.

State sports education is an absolute joke

My point exactly.

jasjas you're talking about compulsory purchase - I think there are quite specific criteria and as I understood it the government has to pay market rate? So it's quite different. Imagine how much it would cost to buy Eton, Harrow, Rodean and ALL the private schools in the country just in terms of the land and buildings at market rate. Surely better to invest that money in state schools.

In reality the proposal must be either to effectively steal them, or just close them down and let the buildings be sold off.

I asked my DB why he chose a private school for his kids, he said "networking, they might not be the brightest but private schooling gives them the best possible advantage"

I totally agree with this, mine is 15, has a progressing career and networks daily, in addition to a networking lesson each week.
With dh in the same industry to offer additional support, lots of industry experience and of course a big name school, is well on the way.

jasjas, eminent domain/compulsory purchase orders are a bad, but essential part of developing a country's infrastructure.

The facilities that will go into the state sector will enhance education for the 97%.

The 97% isn’t going to vote for your socialist utopia because they know better. Labour’s barely hitting 25% on a good day under its loony leadership!

By all m and scrap the charity tax status but I really don't think government should be dictating how people spend their money or confiscating private property.

We are not living in a communist dictatorship.

Jasjas how is the maintenance of these facilities and equipment going to be paid for?
All these rowing lakes, boats, swimming pools, tennis courts, sports pitches etc need a lot of looking after.
Also do you think all the teachers at these private schools-soon-to-be-state are going to stay on?
I’ve read loads of comments about how private school teachers couldn’t cut it in a state school.

@Mistlewoeandwhine Is it a case that your child is leaving the school and since you no longer need the benefits which it gave your child you no longer care if the same choice is denied to future parents? Or do you you look forward to a 7% increase in the size of the classes you teach, probably 2-3 extra children per class.

Eminent domain/compulsory purchase orders are [an] essential part of developing a country's infrastructure

Aren't schools part of the nation's infrastructure?

Are their calls to take Buckingham palace and make it into accommodation? Wasn’t that a suggestion a while back?

I think it'd be better if they'd proposed to scrap the charity status and make private schools offer say 25-30 percent of places as free bursaries, and made some concrete plans about how they will improve state schools and increase teachers pay and conditions to improve recruitment and retention.

What do the schools need to do to get the charity status though?

Dapplegrey The same as the equipment in state schools, its not rocket science! and don't talk about money, Johnson is prepared to send troops and weapons to Saudi, plenty for war!!!

The bottom line is we have a failing state education system, we often come in the bottom 1/2 of international league tables.

The PP who said that if politicians children went to a state school, the sports fields wouldn't get sold off and that in a nutshell is the problem we face, very similar to health, our rulers use BUPA, why should they give a fuck about an 18month waiting list for us plebs?

@jasjas1973 So, you think that Joe Public are in some way subsiding independent schools ,despite the fact that parents of the pupils are paying full taxes on their income, not using any state school provision and also paying to run the independent schools. Not totally sure you have the right end of that stick. Also, the independent schools near you may charge for other groups to use their pools but I very much doubt that they charge "top-dollar". Allowing shared access to sporting facilities is normally a part of the charitable activities of these schools and they tend to charge community groups no more than basic running costs when they come in to use them. BTW, of the nearest 3 comprehensive schools to me, 2 have swimming pools and so does one of the primary schools.

Cendrillon. The motion passed basically said "we would like this to be policy."

It is a motion of support rather a policy motion. Of course Labour aren't going to abolish private schools. Even the Atlee government, which went on a nationalisation spree, didn't abolish private schools.

I agree Cinnamoncake

Add Stephen Kinnock to those who sent their child to independent sixth form.

Even the Atlee government, which went on a nationalisation spree, didn't abolish private schools.

That’s because Attlee was less extreme than these utter fuckheads.

You know the old MN saying “When someone tells you who they are, believe them”? Well I believe Labour all right, and I’m going to resist them all the way!

@Cinammoncake I think that you overestimate how wealthy most independent schools actually are. A very very few will have large financial endowments and alternative sources of income, which might allow them to offer a significant number of bursaries but most schools would simply fold under the cost pressure. I am genuinely not sure that this would help anyone. Also, if they were giving away 25% of their places for free, surely at that point they would qualify for charitable status?

The same as the equipment in state schools, its not rocket science!

Ok and who will decide who gets to go to the state school which is Eton with all its fabulous facilities and equipment all of which will be maintained to the same standard as they are today?
Surely the children who go there will be at an advantage to those who go to a falling down state school with no playing fields as they were sold off?

"I think it'd be better if they'd proposed to scrap the charity status and make private schools offer say 25-30 percent of places as free bursaries,..."

Surely you mean scrap the charity status or make the schools offer etc..

If it's no longer a charity but a business why on Earth should or would they offer so many free places?

Surely you mean that percentage of free places should be the price for charitable status?

I can understand removing charitable status; I can imagine closing them all down - but confiscating their land and property?! Well, then we are all vulnerable.

A while ago Labour (Momentum) were discussing (and probably still are discussing) Land Value Tax to replace council tax. This would disproportionately hit those who live in houses with gardens in the south east. On their last figures LVT would be 3% of your property, so on a £500K house (not huge in the south east!) that would be £15K a year !! If you couldn't pay (like most people) it would roll up and the council would take a lien on your property.