Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

The 7% figure varies hugely - from memory it's about 25% at private high school in my city. There are some out of area boarders but that is still a huge increase in the education budget that would be required locally to educate all those children.

Our local schools already rely on a high proportion going private. When that dropped in the recession the schools could not cope with the higher numbers.

I'm not sure SNP would go for it tbh, the education and legal framework are both different and I don't think they would want to strap themselves to this. Heck if they have a brain they would do the opposite - keep them going and try to attract the overseas students and the wealthy English parents for a nice wee economy boost

I don't much care whether Jeremy Corbyn was privately educated - this was his parents' decision. In the same way that David Cameron went to Eton because it was what his parents chose for him.

I do mind if people who sent their children to independent schools then want to remove that choice from others.

It really bothers me when politicians send their children to schools like Dame Alice Owen or Grey Coat Hospital (the latter describes itself as a CoE comprehensive but all girls have to sit an exam, have a long record of church attendance and live really close) then claim to support state education. Virtually no children would get into those schools under the current admissions requirements.

The pedant in me wants to know how "private schools" are defined. Are these only schools or are they also private tutors, conservatoires, ballet schools, sports coaching etc?

This is a hugely impractical proposal that would spend years in the courts if it was ever implemented. If Labour were genuinely interested in reducing the level of private school provision, they would reintroduce Grammar schools in all counties, not just a few. They won't (because they don't like Grammar schools either). This isn't about giving the sort of people who choose private schools an alternative that they might like.

Famous public schools will always exist in some form. People like me are far less likely to send their children to private schools if there is the possibility of a Grammar school place. It's the reason that Henrietta Barnet had something like 30 applicants per place last year.

Corbyn and his bunch of utter cretins, including the spectacularly uneducated shadow Secretary of State for Education, probably think that Venezuela is to be admired.

Expropriation has absolutely driven investment out of that country. The government there actually stole a manufacturing plant from a company I used to work for. All competitors pulled out in case they went the same way and unsurprisingly the stolen plant went down the pan with the government owing us hundreds of millions in compensation.

It truly beggars believe that the hive mind of the upper echelons of Labour is now so utterly dim that they think they've had a good idea with this.

The 7% is for all age groups across the country, at any one time

It's higher in some places (including swathes of London, a city which has been struggling to provide enough state school places). It is also higher for secondary than for prep level, and higher again for sixth form (you need to aim off a bit for the %age, as school leavers mean the cohort or smaller, but again the numbers go up).

And of course there are plenty of families who use private schools only for a couple of years. So the %age of families who use private education or at least part of their DC's schooling is probably considerably higher.

"I'm not sure how McDonnell could promise shorter working hours and no loss of pay."

Inflation?

Pay the same, buying power considerably eroded.

Unbelievable that people get sooooooo worked up about a policy that affects so few people.

Ignoring the wealth of equipment and facilities that would be then available to the rest of our children, who don't have access to music, language, sports and swimming facilities.

How would a shorter working week actually work in the NHS?
There are 320,000 nhs nurses, if the all change from 5 days to 4 that’s 320,000 days of nursing that need to be covered - that’s the equivalent of employing 80,000 extra nurses on 4 day a week basis

By that logic we could solve the shortages of nurses by have a 6 day week for then?
Why do so many nurses leave the NHS ? over work, stress and long hours, oft unpaid.

This long hours work culture we have in the UK is stupid, research shows that in many industries, shorters hours leads to higher productivity and less stress.

It obviously isn't applicable for all sectors.

@RancidOldHag

Yep - that's exactly how it would happen, 'naturally'.

Prices would increase as output would fall; hey presto, everyone still paid the same but worse off.

Geniuses...

I wish politicians would work on solving problems not creating new ones.

The 7% figure is really unhelpful with respect to universities as I read the figure doing A levels at private schools is something like 18%. Which does mean that it would relatively harder to get into university from a private school with equal qualifications- doesn't sound like levelling a playing field to me.

Never mind that the 18% are more selected in the first place but that's a different issue.

I am a lefty liberal at heart but really labour are losing the plot

By that logic we could solve the shortages of nurses by have a 6 day week for then?

I think the point is, there is no logic.

You could probably find a lot of nurses willing to work 6 hour days if you paid them for the sixth day. As always, money is the constraining factor.

I think people are 'worked up' over this proposal because it shows Corbyn's willingness to seize private assets, and maybe this leads them to ponder what else he might be thinking about.

Ignoring the wealth of equipment and facilities that would be then available to the rest of our children, who don't have access to music, language, sports and swimming facilities.

How though? Are they literally going to rob those assets that are in private hands and then everyone can use the facilities for free? how will people suddenly get access to music and languages? Or do people think the private schools will run as now, just free. And that their kids will get in? (which wouldn't be fair/equal anyway of course)

Ignoring the wealth of equipment and facilities that would be then available to the rest of our children, who don't have access to music, language, sports and swimming facilities.

So jasjas you’re happy with the idea of private property being commandeered by government? What about private hospitals - are they fair game too?

The 7% is for all age groups across the country, at any one time

Its 6.5 % for England, 7% for the UK, 15% for over 16's, these figures are from the Independent schools council.

I asked my DB why he chose a private school for his kids, he said "networking, they might not be the brightest but private schooling gives them the best possible advantage"

Its also why many top sports people are privately educated and why private education dominates the professions and the ftse 250

So, money yet again buys privilege! and you all defend it???? it disadvantages your own children but you still support private schooling.

I think people are 'worked up' over this proposal because it shows Corbyn's willingness to seize private assets, and maybe this leads them to ponder what else he might be thinking about.

Well quite! what if they suddenly decide it's not fair for people to privately own houses and they should all be in government control now

do people think the private schools will run as now, just free. And that their kids will get in?

Surely people aren't that thick?

SupaSara. This is not Labour policy, nor is it an idea from the upper echelons of the party.

I use private education so I have skin in the game, so to speak. I use private education because I think it is better than state education.

Closing private schools won't magically make sports fields equipment and facilities and teachers turn up in state schools so that everyone can now be top sportsmen. Why not bring all sport into schools at a decent level instead - part of the problem here started with the big sports fields sell off decades ago imo

Unbelievable that people get sooooooo worked up about a policy that affects so few people.

Oh, if it’s just a few people whose education gets destroyed, then who cares, right?

This must be that kinder, gentler politics that Labour pretends to care about

Most kids dont have the ability, drive or parental support to be top sportspeople. Getting them to do any kind of sport without moaning would be a win though.

So jasjas you’re happy with the idea of private property being commandeered by government? What about private hospitals - are they fair game too?

How many houses, gardens, land and farms have or will be commandeered by the Govt to build HS2/3 ?

Or to build our motorway network or the expansion of Heathrow?

Those bloody tories are just a bunch of communists taking our private property!!

Infact with HS2/3 and Heathrow, the property taken will not even end up in the state sector (for the free benefit of all) but in the hands of private business.

Its also why many top sports people are privately educated and why private education dominates the professions and the ftse 250

Hang on, which one is it?

No, because what has private education done for this country? Given us Cameron, Rees-Mogg, Johnston, Blair & Corbyn.

CendrillonSings. This is not Labour policy.

Cinammoncake....l agree that is exactly the way this Labour government is determined to head, towards communism, ludicrous as that may sound....
Considering the amount of Labour MPs who were either privately educated themselves or whose children are, this is quite spectacular hypocrasy.

Surely people aren't that thick?

Trewser - I think the subject of public schools can make people (on mumsnet, anyway) have momentary bursts of thickness. One poster said that the reason so many Etonians were killed in World War I was because they were too stupid to get out of the way.

Most top sportspeople were privately educated because they got scholarships to independent schools. State sports education is an absolute joke.