Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

So it seems that to create a level field we are lowering the standards.
No one sees problems caused by this in the gut for the whole of society and the country?

I've been genuinely amazed at how many parents hired tutors at our good state secondary!

Grammar wouldn't have been the answer for us. First two dds wouldn't have passed 11+, if its anything like as stressful as it seems. They were too busy having fun and playing sport. Priavte school got them good and excellent exam results. Plus tons of the good stuff, sport, music, art, debating, leadership etc.

As education is a devolved area (as far as I know) I'm not sure they can make a simple ruling from Westminter anyway.

Both our girls have gone from state primary to independent schools. The difference is striking - not only in the curriculum, and the level to which they’re working, but also in the trust and respect shown to the students by the school. It really is a different world and not just facilities, but the attitude and that the students are supported to research, form opinions, think critically, trust their own judgement. This is very different to anything I have heard of/experienced in state school. I think the fact they are independent from the constant dicking around by successive governments helps a lot. They have developed their own ethos and successful way of doing things. It has been a revelation, and we would never want to go back unless we had access to equally positive state provision. Would love to not have to pay for a good education. Our girls are thriving now, and happy. (Certainly not cultivating any sort of sense of entitlement).
The problem seems that the state system has been brought to its knees. Independent schools near us are full, with places in higher demand than ever. There are so many fantastic people in education who are being driven out of it because of the environment. There is too much inequality and a range of levels of provision within the state system itself to make this policy the right way to go at this time, although it is a great ambition - to provide a broad state education geared towards either academic or vocational qualifications to cater for all - which we used to have?? - but please do that first. Don’t destroy some great schools :(

EdtheBear I think that might be the same position for the CofE Primary Schools in England

boptist
If they removed charitable status that would be the end of social mobility altogether. I think there should be more with charitable status, especially for those whose needs aren't met by the state. I don't just mean those with learning difficulties or disabilities, some are very gifted and specialise in subjects not taught in state schools. One of mine had outgrown the teaching capabilities at 8, they'd have hated state schools.

My friend is a SEN teacher at a private school. I have been a reader scribe for years there for her as have many other volunteers. What will happen to those children I wonder. They do the national curriculum but also have 1 to 1 lessons with SEN teachers. Who will help them if the state take over. Because of this extra care they have taken exams and gone on to university.

This is how it would work;

1. Many many families would move countries (almost every child at DCs private school are dual nationality), taking their high salaries (and subsequent tax) with them.
2. Parents would hire tutors and on Wednesday and Friday afternoons they’d hire out the local David Lloyd to cover the sport. The science/art/DT/IT teachers would set up businesses with mobile labs/art /DT/IT facilities in converted lorries and use the village hall carparks as a hub.

The only was education can be fair is if all schools are standardized and your child gets randomly allocated a place with no regard for your location, needs, ability or anything else. And the wealthy can still opt out- see point 1.

Nice to have the wherewithal to move. Friends of ours did this to the tune of £1.4mil to get into a good state school.

We can’t move home due to family commitments and the schools around us are pretty terrible. Bad results and behaviour problems. Spates of kids skipping off to join ISIS - I can cope with smoking pot behind the bike sheds but that is a whole new level of crazy.

In other news, McDonnell has just promised a 32 hour work week, with no loss of pay!.

The OP asked how it would work in reality, and that's what I'm wondering too.

So, what would happen that if in September 2020 all private schools were abolished?

If I look at secondary schools near us I would imagine that all the places in the main entry years Y7 for girls and Y7 and Y9 are already filled, and at least some of the intake for 2021 has already been sorted. So there would be limited number of places available for pupils not already in the system. And there would be tons of siblings going forward. If Labour loses after the first term, there should not be a huge impact on the pupil profile.

Is the Labour government proposing to scrapping all academic selection as well? i.e. grammar schools? Round here most of the good private schools are academically selective, some exceptionally so. I am not for one minute suggesting that there are not bright kids in the state sector, but if academic selection is not ruled out, you will just have a handful of pupils coming through who would have got into grammars anyway. This policy is not going to help the kids who are struggling in the comps with low level disruption.

Also. are they going to put a cap on the price of uniform/ extras etc? Or limit teaching styles? Or school policies? You can bet your bottom dollar that the average working class family living near Harrow will not want to fork out for a blazer if the school put the price up to £150 and say that uniform is compulsory.

If I was the chair of governors at a prestigious private school I would just raise the academic selection criteria, or have specific entry requirements.

We can't get into our amazing local comp because we are the wrong religion, so we're going to pay for our DCs to go to a great private school. However, if the private school is destroyed, we'll be sending our quite bright (but not brilliant) children to a good local sixth form.
Being brutally honest, they will probably get better GCSE results than a lot of the kids from the more deprived parts of town. So we will take their sixth form places. This is a dick move on our part, and I am thoroughly ashamed of myself for even thinking about it, but that is the reality.

Also, do Labour seriously think that the culture of private schools will change overnight? Some of these schools have been round for centuries, they are not going to roll over and take this. They have large reserves of money and loads of connections. They will fight it through the courts, and if needs be, sit it out for 4 years until the next election.

Oh, and I have been a Labour voter in the past, but they've lost me for the foreseeable future.

I think that simply confiscating assets owned by private organisations would be incompatible with Art 1, Protocol 1 of the Human Rights Act.

Removing charitable status would be a suitable compromise

Oddboots As education is a devolved area (as far as I know) I'm not sure they can make a simple ruling from Westminter anyway.

I'm sure SNP would be over the moon to close private schools in Scotland. What an easy way to "close the attainment gap" than by shutting down the private schools.
SNP are all about closing the gap. Not raising the standards of those at the bottom. Bringing the top down will have the desired effect!

In other news, McDonnell has just promised a 32 hour work week, with no loss of pay!

Yay! good for teachers then. Presumably our dcs will be going to school four days a week then?
Nice that they'll have enough money for all of this and free social care for over 65s and enough to buy back all public services.
Rich people won't be moving abroad, not at all

Not sure about a magic money tree, they must have found a magic money forest!

So it seems that to create a level field we are lowering the standards.
No one sees problems caused by this in the gut for the whole of society and the country?

No, because what has private education done for this country? Given us Cameron, Rees-Mogg, Johnston, Blair & Corbyn.

93% of of children don't go anywhere near a private school.

Other countries do just fine without such a large number of these schools, subsidised by the ordinary tax payer.

Lower working week would be fantastic, UK workers already work the longest hours in Europe, with the lowest productivity!
As we see with Thomas Cook, bosses are creaming the profits and not distributing them fairly or even running the company properly.

How would a shorter working week actually work in the NHS?
There are 320,000 nhs nurses, if the all change from 5 days to 4 that’s 320,000 days of nursing that need to be covered - that’s the equivalent of employing 80,000 extra nurses on 4 day a week basis. Have we got 80,000 unemployed nurses looking for a job?

Frances Ryan
@DrFrancesRyan
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6h
Defending private schools on basis of “choice” is misleading. Removing the ‘choice’ of them will be no loss to the vast majority - because £20k a year fees was never an option. Choice is a misnomer without material conditions to make it real. It’s choice only for the privileged.

32 hour week will somebody think of the children having to have a day with mum or dad. Will it be the same 32 hours, otherwise it would play havoc with nurseries, childcare providers and working parents. They really aren't thinking any of this through, it sounds like they are stabbing in the dark, spewing anything hoping it will catch.
They have lost my vote for being bloody ridiculous, and I was left rather than middle, but not far left.
All this latest spin will you drive away their current voters.

AsTheWorldTurns. Stop misleading/lying. McDonnell has not promised a 32 hour week.

He's aiming (aiming, not promising) to reduce the average working week from the current 37 hours to 32 hours. It is not a plan for a four-day week, nor is it a plan for everyone to work 32 hours.

You should take it up with the BBC if you disagree.

Labour Party conference: McDonnell promises four-day working week

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49798357

I'm not sure how McDonnell could promise shorter working hours and no loss of pay. I think that man just doesn't live in the real world and like all politicians promises the earth with no thought (or intention) as to how they can deliver it!

AsaTheWorldTurns. The BBC article is mis-titled.

It is a plan to reduce the average working week from 37 hours to 32 hours over 10 years.

It is not a plan for a 4-day week, nor is it a plan for everyone to work 32 hours.

Screaming Lord Sutch would be amazed to see the pronouncements coming out of labour this week.