Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

It's more like people shopping in Lidl becoming incensed by the fact that some people shop at Waitrose.

This is just ridiculous and trivializes a really complex and important issue. We do have a serious problem with inequality in this country, and education is pretty central to that. This inequality impacts social mobility, how we feel about democracy, and the stake we feel we have in society. Quite frankly, I'm not convinced that, for example, in politics, we are being led by brightest and the best, and that affects all of us.

I was a poor kid on an assisted place in the 90s, and massively resented those Labour MPs who wanted to abolish the provision that had got me out of the local dungheap, and it absolutely fucking was, whilst their own children benefitted from an education I could never have had access to. I am aware now of the arguments about the scheme, but that is how it looked at the time. Actually I get why people won't sacrifice their own children for their principles, but of course it's hypocritical. And of course it undermines them.

I agree - I'm amazed that anyone even attempts to defend these people!

She makes stupid mistakes, is a hypocrite and her way of speaking is desperately grating. She's not the only politician I find irritating though

We do have a serious problem with inequality in this country, and education is pretty central to that

It isn't really. Everyone has access to a free state education. There are pockets of crap free state education which need sorting. The fact that some students have a paid for education doesn't affect that in the slightest.

Ah, I see what you did there! Is it because....I'm racist?

I've no idea, but I'm just aware that Diane Abbott gets a lot of flak that I think is uncredited. There's an interesting anecdote about the interview she gave on LBC when she got the figures wrong on the cost of employing new police officers. Tim Shipman reported that Theresa May, privately was really sympathetic, because she knew that brain-freeze can happen to anyone.

It isn't really. Everyone has access to a free state education. There are pockets of crap free state education which need sorting. The fact that some students have a paid for education doesn't affect that in the slightest.

I don't think this analysis really stacks up.

Not rt whole ft yet but this reminds me of the Lib Dems promise to eliminate student fees - they never expected to be in a position where they'd have to make good on it so could pledge any old bollocks.

A cynic might think that Labour are trying to tank their own chances at a general election on purpose, since they are as clueless as the Tories as to what to do about Brexit but as things stand they can just blame Boris!

Just ridiculous. It seems that the moron that is Corbyn believes all people who send their kids to private school are oligarchs & the landed gentry. The ones who'll still find ways to educate their children in an elitist manner no matter what his feckless party do. How about looking at some of the private schools whose pupils are sent by parents who scrimp & save in order to send their children there, for whatever reason, usually due to the fact there aren't enough spaces in decent comprehensive schools or enough pastoral care to help children with issues like anxiety in mainstream education. Maybe top of the list of any government should be to sort these sorts of issues out rather than penalise people for where they choose to send their children.

A cynic might think that Labour are trying to tank their own chances at a general election on purpose, since they are as clueless as the Tories as to what to do about Brexit but as things stand they can just blame Boris!

Absolutely! Quite funny watching them do it as well!

Raising the quality of state education absolutely must be a priority. I'm willing to pay more tax for this and have voted Labour and other tax raising parties in the past partially for that reason. I'd consider supporting and paying towards abolishing private schools if it were going to achieve that, but really can't see how it would. If anyone can explain I'd pay attention.

Problem is in my experience a lot of private school parents are very very pushy. They will not sit back and let their children go to some failing school and then help to improve it. They will not risk their child's education in that way.

I have children in private education and if it ceased to exist over night with the money I saved on school fees I would buy a property in the catchment of the best state school I could find and fund any 'gaps' with private tutors. Assuming they hadn't been added to some banned profession list

Anyway I think it is all a load of tosh and just a negotiating tactic to get VAT ultimately added to school fees so parents just cough that up in gratitude that they can still privately educate.

I as does pretty much everyone I know despair of politics at the moment.

Raising the quality of state education absolutely must be a priority. I'm willing to pay more tax for this and have voted Labour and other tax raising parties in the past partially for that reason so would I, although i don't think money is the only answer while we have a percentage of parents and kids who distrust school and don't value education.

Also cannot see hew getting rid of private schools would help.

I agree, money isn't all of the solution. We could start by reversing the systemic underfunding of the past decade though!

Wouldn't it be better to remove the demand for private education by making state education demonstrably equivalent?

A lovely idea, but I can't believe people say this as though it's remotely possible. Arguably the main things that attract people to private schools are the facilities (which state schools couldn't afford), smaller class sizes (ditto) and the demographic of the pupils, and possibly (sometimes misguidedly imo) the quality of the teaching staff. But what attracts many highly qualified teaching staff to private schools in the first place is precisely those things the state schools can't afford and don't have.

The government doesn't seem to be able to properly fund schools at the level they are currently at , never mind trying to elevate them to compete with good private schools. A wealthy family where possibly generations of children have gone to the same private school are not suddenly going to send little Tarquin to the local comp, no matter what desperate new initiative the government grasps at to try and improve it.

This is not Labour policy.

I can't tell you how relaxing it is not to have to read the constant moaning on the state comp Facebook page about little Ryan having to wear black shoes not trainers and Lily being forced to play hockey when it might rain. Not to mention being apoplectic that Keiran got a detention and of course he won't be going the teacher doesn't like him and who needs to learn French anyway. Good riddance!

This is not Labour policy

That doesn't matter. It's being discussed.

This isn't another one of those pie in the sky ideas where the parents of private school pupils band together to improve state education?

Choice around school places is a fallacy anyway, doesn't surprise me that JC and his cronies would like to make that even more the case.

Raising the quality of state education absolutely must be a priority
Exactly. Making it more crap for everyone might (but probably won't) make a level playing field - if religious schools and grammars also abolished- but isn't really what most parents are looking for, surely people want state schools to be better and more investment in them, smaller classes, better facilities, more teachers etc as the starting point.

Where I'm from we have very few private schools and those are not allowed to collect tuition fees (with few expections). Our school system is still considered decent. So for an this concept of private school is quite foreign. I do think it could work but it would require a change in the education system and cultural attitude towards education.

This is a cheap shot to win over voters. It places blame on those who can afford better education, rather than on the politicians who, for years, have totally ruined our state education system.

Where I live, we still have grammar and secondary schools, and a handful of private schools. Going to a private school here doesn't benefit you more than going to a good grammar school in terms of GCSE and A Level marks. It's more for the tradition for the families than anything else.

Really, we need to make secondary schools much more aimed towards learning skills, getting apprenticeships etc so those who aren't as academic can still flourish and get proper gateways into work they'll enjoy. I think grammar schools should remain focused on the academics. Both schools should get more funding that is appropriate to their main focuses. I'd also like to see more of a cross-community relationship between both types of school in the same towns and cities, so allowing students to take classes in the other school if they aren't offered in your own. Also making it easy from students to transfer to one school from another if they realise the other schooling system would benefit them more. It would also help bridge that gap between rivalries between different schools.

I think schooling needs to be tailored to the pupils who will end up attending, and make the most of their skill-set and set them up for life. I do genuinely believe that in England, if grammar schools were brought back, a lot of people would be happier to send their child there than scrimping and saving to send their child to a private one. And if secondary schools genuinely suited kids who are practical rather than trying to keep up with grammar schools, I think a lot more people would end up in stable careers, and doing trades we desperately need.

I think it's exactly that JacquesHammer. And it just doesn't work IME.

We've just moved DD to a private school. Until now she's been in state education, in a school perceived as good and in a very MC area with engaged parents by the bucketload. By and large the children were doing ok educationally but the quality of teaching was very poor - the children weren't falling behind, mostly, because their parents were teaching them or hiring tutors. No amount of engagement from the parents was improving the school though, it had poor management and an endless stream of inexperienced teachers.

The school has a generally good reputation but that's because of the cohort, not the education. No amount of engagement, fundraising and pushing by the parents was making it better.

Re comments on scraping faith schools. I don't know about England but I know the RC schools in Scotland are written into law.
They initially belonged to the church. Various reasons, lack of funding, poor standards, the government agreed to take them over with the agreement that they would always provide RC schooling.

So it's not that simple to scrap them.