Abolishing private schools - how would it work in practice?

[Dongdingdong]

Labour has voted to abolish private schools:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-public-private-school-abolish-eton-vote-conference-corbyn-education-policy-a9115766.html

Whether you agree with this or not, I don’t understand how the logistics would work. Would private schools suddenly cease to exist from say, summer 2023, with all pupils forced to find a place at the local state school for the autumn term onwards? What would happen to the buildings and facilities - would they remain as state schools or be sold off to developers for example?

I don't think anybody would object to selection and the creation of an elite based on ability.

Why yes, the Labour Party does. They want to abolish grammar schools.

I don't think that a grammar school education would be described as an elite education by most people.

This is exactly what Angela Rayner calls them.

But do you not see the hypocrisy in allowing her own child to benefit from private education while actively wanting to deny other people that privilege?

Yes. That was the point of my post.

Along with nationalising everything else, they would need hundreds of billions of pounds. There would probably also me legal challenges. Incidentally, about half of independent schools in the UK do not have charity status and the other half reinvest all their income in the running of the school the charitable trust was created for. Lastly, I think it is really easy to see a higher than proportionate number of people form private school backgrounds in prominent jobs and conclude that it was the private education that got them there and that this is evidence that private education entrenches inequality. I think this is not necessarily the case. People from privileged backgrounds tend to have higher than average chances of doing well, regardless of whether they went to a state or private school. There is a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater and destroying something good, rather than focussing on providing state schools with the funding they need to provide well for their students.

She doesn't hide the fact she went to Cambridge

I meant that she hides her elite education well by being such a dolt.

And of course, the most important question of the day. Who gets to go to the newly nationalised Eton? Certainly not the current crop of Etonians, they'd be off to Switzerland like a shot.

This - and I don’t suppose many of the teachers will hang around as we are constantly being told on mumsnet that teachers in the private sector wouldn’t last a morning in a state school.
There will also be home schooling organised by and for a group of families and as yet unimagined arrangements - since necessity is the mother of invention.

Wouldn't it be better to remove the demand for private education by making state education demonstrably equivalent? I would be more likely to vote for a labour government that pledges to properly reform and fund education in this country, rather than this nonsense.

But do you not see the hypocrisy in allowing her own child to benefit from private education while actively wanting to deny other people that privilege?

I agree with whoever said there's no hypocrisy. There's nothing wrong with playing by the rules that currently exist while campaigning for the rules to change. I say that as Tory voter who has always disliked Abbot and who's planning to send his DD to a private school.

Hypocrisy would be for her to say it's wrong for other people to send children to private schools while doing so herself. (I don't know if she has said that, if so, by all means have a go at her for that.)

One can perfectly logically believe that it's right for people to now pursue any legal option open to them, at the same time as believing some options should be removed in future, as soon as they can be legislated against.

Of course, this is not Labour policy, so it's mearly hypothetical.

I agree with whoever said there's no hypocrisy. There's nothing wrong with playing by the rules that currently exist while campaigning for the rules to change.

But in the real world, closing down private schools isn't going to magically mean that all state schools suddenly offer an excellent standard of education overnight, is it?

Diane Abbott wants to get rid of private schools (having conveniently seen her son safely through the private education system already) and force the rest of us to send our kids to substandard schools in the meantime while Labour attempt to improve them - which could take decades to happen, if it ever does.

Shall we also close down private hospitals, religious schools, private dentists... why not take over Harrods - that’s just for rich people isn’t it.

I agree with whoever said there's no hypocrisy. There's nothing wrong with playing by the rules that currently exist while campaigning for the rules to change.

The state will never be able to deliver an education as superior as the City of London School for Boys. It's not even a remotely realistic goal, because the state cannot afford to spend £30k a year per student.

If she'd sent her son to more middling state school, she might have slightly cleaner hands - but as it stands, even Abbot calls her decision 'indefensible'.

Sorry - should read: if she'd sent her son to a more middling private school.

AsTheWorldTurns, I don't think you can call a black, working-class woman who got into Cambridge University in the 1970s a dolt.

I was a poor kid on an assisted place in the 90s, and massively resented those Labour MPs who wanted to abolish the provision that had got me out of the local dungheap, and it absolutely fucking was, whilst their own children benefitted from an education I could never have had access to. I am aware now of the arguments about the scheme, but that is how it looked at the time. Actually I get why people won't sacrifice their own children for their principles, but of course it's hypocritical. And of course it undermines them.

They won't be shut down, they will become state schools. No big deal.

What if the teachers don't want to teach in state schools?

What about the classical civilisation teachers and the history of art teachers? And the specialist music and sport teachers? What happens to them? Or do those things get rolled out in all schools? Or just some state schools that will become better than other state schools?

No logistics problem - simply as of such and such a date - probably a couple of years in the future private schools will be nationalised and all pupils starting after this date will be state pupils allocated as normal.

We nationalise whole industries before - our NHS would not exist if we had not done similar

Now - cost could be an issue! Paying for all those extra teachers and compensation for landowners etc

Would I vote for a party who advocated this - absolutely!! Anything to reduce the criminal level of entrenched inequality in our country - anything!

The racism analogy is daft.

It's more like people shopping in Lidl becoming incensed by the fact that some people shop at Waitrose.

It's more like people shopping in Lidl becoming incensed by the fact that some people shop at Waitrose.

Nationalize Waitrose! Free organic food for everyone!

I'm very worried about entrenched inequality but I'm just not sure this is going to do a lot to tackle it. People with enough money and the desire not to use the state system will make other provision. I don't really have strong feelings about the policy either way but I can't see that it'll address the need for improvement and more funding in the state sector. My children are in state and that's not likely to change, so this is more of a concern to me than something that feels more like it's being advocated for on principle.

AsTheWorldTurns, I don't think you can call a black, working-class woman who got into Cambridge University in the 1970s a dolt.

Then came a civil streamer fast-streamer, is widely recognized across the house as a talented MP, and has been shadow Home Secretary, etc, etc. There is something about Diane Abbott that seems to irritate her opponents greatly.

Nationalize Waitrose! Free organic food for everyone!

Absolutely voting for this.

There is something about Diane Abbott that seems to irritate her opponents greatly.

Ah, I see what you did there! Is it because....I'm racist? .