To wish people would say what they mean?

[StillCoughingandLaughing]

Having a relaxing sunbathe in the park. A man goes past dribbling a football and says to me ‘They’ve lost a plane’, pointing over at a father and son. I said ‘Oh dear’, not really knowing what I was supposed to say, but being polite anyway.

He said ‘Yes; it’s a big one as well. They were flying it and it just disappeared over there somewhere’. I made some sympathetic noise and said I hadn’t seen it (assuming that was what he was trying and failing to ask me).

‘The kid was crying’, he continued. He then looks over at them again and says to me ‘Yes, he’s CRYING’. I said, ‘Oh, what a shame’.

Father and son, arguing about whose fault it was, go off into the bushes to look for it. The man with the football puts it down and goes over and says something to them, following them into the bushes (presumably to help them look).

It dawns on me that he was trying to ask me to help to look too. Why the hell didn’t he just ask? What’s the point of desperately trying to hint at it instead? It’s the same as people who make endless loud sighs and huffing noises if they want to get past you, getting more and more frustrated, but wouldn’t say ‘excuse me’ even with a gun to their head.

Why???

What's wrong with a straightforward reply? Your papers are on the table - yes,is that a problem?

And "could you pass the whatever" is absolutely standard English usage,only a raging pedant ( my Dad...) responds that yes they could,would you like them to. Though I suppose it's a teachable moment for the subtleties of English grammar. Will you pass the whatever ?? Would you pass the whatever ?? You might prefer the question direct but in that situation you know what the person means perfectly well.

Me and MIL

Me "what would you like to drink"
MIL "what are you having"
Me "never mind what I'm having, what do you fancy"
MIL "I don't know, what is there"
Me: g&t, sherry, red, white, something soft
DH: have what you want mum
MIL oh I don't know, is the sherry open
DH will be in a minute
MIL oh I'll have what Roses is having, she's got a glass of white
DH OK
MIL - "oh, it's very dry
DH takes glass, "never mind I'll pour into Rose'z glass - hands sherry
Every. Bloody. Time. Does my head in.

Oh, and it's because she won't take personal responsibility for liking her own choice.

Classic work examples:

"Are you busy?"
[Yes, but even if I wasn't, I'd hardly admit it)
"Have you got a minute?"
[Yes, I have a 'minute' but whatever you want is probably going to take at least 10 minutes, isn't it?]

They're the polite formulae most day to day interactions are built on, though - most people learn not to take them literally or to 'translate' them, although obviously they are more difficult for some non NT people to learn.

I really struggle with this. An ex colleague of mine was the worst for it but did it in a really manipulative way.

Her: Are you ok? You look really unwell.

Me: um yes, I’m fine. I thought I looked normal.

Her: no not at all, you look clammy and sick. Are you sure you feel ok? And you slept well?

Me: yes, I’ve just sneezed but that’s about it.

Her to manager: Sounds like Funghi is struggling I should take some of her (lucrative) work from her to help out.

Why not just ask me for the work?

I was going to a meeting the other day. Walking away from desk and was asked if I have a minute.

I said 'is it actually a mixture I have a meeting'

I actually nearly cheered when my colleague said 'actually mo probably about 5, grab you after?'

Usually its 'yeah will take seconds' and it doesnt.

It's such a British thing... I now live in France where people are a lot more direct, and it often causes cultural upsets when my French and British colleagues "ask" each other to do things.

My PIL are the worst... ask them a simple question like " what would you like to do today?" or "do you want to leave now or will we have a cup of tea first?" and they freeze like rabbits in headlights, paralysed by the terror of answering a question and expressing a direct preference. I have to guess what they actually want all the time.

British teacher speaking to students on a train trip: " if I could just ask you to possibly sit down in your seats, it's really very noisy and quite disruptive for other people"

I say what I mean, people don’t always like it!

I travelled to the US alot. Florida and Texas mainly. When in a restaurant British people often get odd looks from servers when they say

'Can I have the steak?'

And sometimes the servers even respond with 'is that what you want? Of course you can' long confused.

Because 'could I have the steak?' Is essentially saying 'is it possible for me to have it'

It makes far more sense to say 'I will have the steak' far more straight forward.

Saying "could you pass me..." Is a request. It's a fairly established polite way of making a request.

It is a fairly established lack of request. If you want the remove, ask for it. Or get it yourself.

My favourite is when people ask to borrow things like tissues, paper and something you’re going to use and then not going to be in a position to give back.

But it is a very British trait, up there with queuing

"It is a fairly established lack of request"

This is mind-boggling. Of course it's a request! It's absolutely standard English for a request. Only a non native speaker or extreme pedant would think otherwise.

funghi
Do we have the same colleague?
It is a fairly established lack of request.
Except it's not.
Using modal verbs like could and may is an established way of making a polite request. As another poster said, it's deliberate pedantry to ignore this

I had a colleague who'd do that to students:
Student: Please could I borrow a pen? Mine's ran out.
Colleague: Of course (continues to teach lesson)
Student doesn't have anything to write with.

I always felt is stank of pedantry and a desire to seem smarter than they were.

DrDiva I hope you don't work in my ds's school. Sarcasm to children is just nasty.

I think in a roundabout way he was trying to be nice - they were about to go into the bushes behind you sunbathing... he wasn't asking you to help he was explaining why they were about to rummage around the bushes so as not to worry you!

extreme pedant

You say that as if it is an insult.

This is mind-boggling. Of course it's a request! It's absolutely standard English for a request. Only a non native speaker or extreme pedant would think otherwise

Absolutely standard British English, anyway! Not recognising it as such just sounds rude.

Although it’s interesting that other nationalities view it differently.

If someone chooses to deliberately ignore a widely accepted feature of the English language to the point where their response in conversation is to ignore the meaning being conveyed then they are being deliberately rude.

If people who learn English as a second language manage to study modal verbs and polite requests in almost every course, native speakers who deliberately choose to ignore this basic feature are really displaying some bizarre attempted smart arse syndrome that highlights their own lack of knowledge.

I do think there's a difference between 'could I have a pen' which is just a polite way of requesting something and 'I haven't got a pen' which is absolving yourself of responsibility for not having a pen and pushing it onto the other person to sort out your problem for you.

My mother used to hint about me sorting out difficult conversations for her. If she didn't want to tell one of my sisters that she was worried about their health or their weight or that she was unhappy about something they'd done, she'd moan at me until I offered to say something. I've tried to come more direct myself as I hate all that shit and if she was alive now I'd just tell her to tell them herself.

EmpressLesbianInChair
It may be viewed differently in different cultures, but modals to make polite requests is a feature in almost every TEFL/EFL/ESL course.

I'm feeling really stupid. What's the alternative to "could/would you pass me the remote?", without turning it into a command?

Many PP's are saying "just ask", but I literally cannot think of another way of making it a question.

The majority of dhs family do the I dont mind/if you like/ill leave it with you/its up to you etc. Got to the point that I stopped asking. Dh did it once and my reply was ok I wont bother because if you dont mind I dont either.
Suffice as to say I actually get a yes please love on no thanks darl.

'Please can you pass me the remote?'

'Can you pass me the remote, please?'

Or

'Pass me the remote please'

Or

'Pass the remote'

@Tilltheendoftheline - how is can different to could in this instance? You could still just answer "yes" and take no action