To not want to forgive my friend's DH

[WishWeWereStillYoungNCarefree]

More of a WWYD.

Trying to be brief.

Friends husband has been a dick to her for years.

It's recently come to a head. Bad stuff, abusive stuff, happened. He then cheated on her (with the mum of their DCs friend).

For various reasons it's v hard for her to leave. She's indicated she wants to but it's not simple.

Just found out he's reading all her texts. So all our advice texts to her. He's read.

Me and other friend seem to be expected to carry on socialising as normal. Despite fact he knows we hate him, and he hates us.

I can't do it. My DH says we should carry on as normal for her sake. I physically feel like I can't do it. Too much has happened. I hate him.

But don't know what to do for my friend. I care about her so much. She is trying to organise our Christmas get together (families together).

WWYD? Would you socialise with an abusive arsehole for your friends sake?

I'd go to be there for your friend. After arriving I'd take him to one side and tell him (preferably with a huge smile on your face so no one can sense what's bing said) straight that the only reason you are there is because of your friend, and that if you had a choice you'd have nothing to do with him. Then turn away, smile brightly and enjoy the gathering. Don't give him a chance to respond.

In other words Play the bastard at his own game with a huge dollop of passive-aggressive.

I was in a similar situation with a friend a few years back. At social gatherings I'd be my usual bouncy loud self, but with him I'd give a single curt, frosty acknowledgement of his presence then ignore him for the rest of the time. People noticed but hey ho. He was more uncomfortable than me - friends know I pretty much like and get on with most people so it was likely to be something serious to make me be like that. She left him eventually and now has a nice new man who loves her.

Good luck to you and your friend. Echo the advice re a new secret phone.

I would rather than end up with her isolated but I appreciate how difficult it will be. I think by not youd be playing into his hands in trying to isolate her

@WishWeWereStillYoungNCarefree

I feel like the consensus is to support her and to go? It's actually making me feel panicky because I know he's read my texts and it will be like a huge elephant in the room, with him knowing we all know what he's done?!

Yes it will be a big elephant in the room - for him. He should be the one worrying, not you. You have been kind and supportive, he has been a shit. Hold your head up and be proud of your conduct - you have nothing to be ashamed of - he does. He should be shitting himself that you are coming (he won't be mind you) so take the high ground and walk in head held high.

You dont like him, other than him now being aware of that nothing has changed (if he swore at your child he probably realises you dont like him for that at least). Pretend he hasn't seen texts. No doubt that is what he will do. Support your friend so she does not become isolated. Hope she finds the stregnth to leave soon.

Sorry but no matter how much you love your friend, and it's heartbreaking her kids are missing out on their friendship with your own children, I just couldn't go and pretend everything is a perfect xmas celebration. It's collusion and doing so is continuing to keep your friend in her comfort zone and may make her think what is happening is just the right side of normal and not as bad as she sometimes thinks etc.

One of my best friend married an abusive man, it caused lots of tensions both between me and her and him (I used to call him out on his horrible behaviour which he hated). I used to stress about everything I did and feel guilty it would it make things harder for her when they got home if I pushed back against him. It also caused problems within our friendship group as I often avoided social situations when I knew he was going to be there, which was hard as I felt my submission meant he was controlling me too, but once I'd realised what he truly was, I sometimes couldn't face watching my friend be humiliated during the night as it sucked all the pleasure from the evening for me.

He eventually cheated and left with the ow. The last time I saw him was the first time he met my newborn baby and honestly his behaviour and the things he said to me, my DH and the contempt he treated our child with, if she was still with him no way would I have allowed him anywhere near us again, I couldn't bear to laugh off another 'hilarious' joke about how disgusting babies are etc.

You have to protect your children and yourself first, sadly your friend is choosing to stay (yes I know it's incredibly complex) but you and your kids don't have to be subjected to either direct abuse from him, or the trauma of witnessing her being abused by him either. Tell her straight, and insist you only see her without him.

I might find OP's situation quite liberating. He knows what you said. So you can say whatever you want to him now (nothing should be news). Look him in the eye to tell him boldly that you aren't pretending any more to like him, you only are being civil for her sake. There is no reason to feel uptight or tense. You've said your piece clearly before.

You can be civil without genuinely liking him. You can even laugh at his jokes & tell him he's scum in the next breath. Call him out the moment he does stuff that annoys you, there are only your friend's feelings or situation to protect. That latter problem is your only inhibitor.

@ragged Yes, what you said. Every word of it.

OP - you may have to tolerate the H in order to keep your friend safe. Isolation is one of the 'tools' that abusers use. Watch out for her seeming to back off from your friendship - it will be him making her do it.
Ippy - my heart breaks for you. I hope you find the strength to get out. Please don't let this be your life story.

First chance you get, look him in the eye with a look that says
"I know that you know what I think of you & I don't take a word of it back, either."

No words required. Not aggressive. Just not backing down, either.

Since he's a bully he'll try various responses, perhaps smarmy charm, willful force, bad mouthing, crazy rants, appealing to your sense of pity, or blunt "I don't like you either," statements. Keep your civilised & firm boundaries against that crap every time.

Its not as easy as people think to "just leave" the support truly is not there for the most part. A friend of mine left and it took years to get to that point, people need a coach not a listening ear although that is useful as well, but the coach encourages action of their choice. But as a country we have a system that is against women - lower paid jobs, more caring role (and the pressures that brings), have you even tried renting a house on your own if you have been financially controlled and no access to paperwork, what about references where are they coming from? You also would not have any cash until the courts sort the finances, courts are heavily weighted towards men - sorry but they are I have seen it, I have great admiration for the judges but their hands afre often tied by the law and even keeping locations secret is difficult as unless the abuse is evidenced well they don't blieve it even when children are involved. They should be erring on side of caution but nope. People in these situations are at peak stress and anxiety, often not worked for some time, have had sense of self and self confidence utterly shattered and scattered to four winds and as people are saying friends run for the trees. My friend has just 4 people in the world she talks to. She is suicidal at the moment (When I ask how things are today and I ring EVERY day) she says well I haven't topped myself today although its tempting), she has had to move 100s of miles for physical seperation, he is hunting her liturally and some of the things he has done are now with 3 different areas of police. He phones every aithority possible to hound her and has done for well over a year since she took control and left.

So when you say just leave think about what yu are bringing down on someone and are they strong enough for this

I will not socialise with abusive men point blank.

But tell her that you will see her alone any time, that you will always be there for her and she can count on you.

Apart from anything else a Christmas celebration in this context would be a weird fucked up toxic mockery.

Your friend is in denial, trying to normalise the abnormal, trying to present a facade of apparently normal social life. Don’t collude in this. It’s not real.

It takes people several attempts to leave an abusive relationship, and isolation is often part of the reason for that.

One of the most amazing things my grandparents did was stay close to my parents when they knew they were vile and abusive. It meant they were on hand to step in for us kids when things went too far.

They never agreed with him, and they limited their exposure to his games (so they would attend Christmases, birthdays and the ikes, but not his whimsical events), and they were civil and polite. It meant he had no chance to cut us off from them because they didn't do anything wrong.

If you can then stay close to your friend. You don't have to forgive him. Or like him. But if he isolates her then she has much less chance of being able to leave.

That said protect yourself first and foremost.

Also the one thing they did do was quietly, but firmly tell my mother (and they were his parents so not as clear cut) that they were there for her and the children. They didn't like him or agree with him and they were always there if she wanted their help to leave.

You can stand by a friend in an abusive relationship without being involved in social charades. It’s not one or the other.

Re telling her to leave, one if the things you are told at the freedom programme is you don't tell anyone to leave, the time after leaving is s very dangerous time for a woman, things can escalate, and à good plan needs to be out in place. Obviously if she runs away cos he's going after her with a knife that's different. Si he knows she may be planning to leave. Please do encourage her too go along to her nearest freedom progràmme, if there is a chance he finds out she's going somewhere she can say she's doing a parenting course or something. The facilitators will help her plan an escape.

You have been there for her.But him roaring at your children is a step too far.You have to protect your kids.She is a grown women,who is staying with an abusive man.

You can still be there for her but you dont have to bring your kids in to that toxic enviroment.I wouldnt go and i would tell her why.You cant fix her or make her leave.She has to do that herself.

All I can really suggest is perhaps tolerating a once a year family get together and phoning your friend when you know her DH is at work or out. Apart from being sympathetic and supportive and encouraging her to be more assertive with him or leave, I am not sure what else you could do. I think you are right to avoid much socialising with him.

I can’t really believe people can be this naive. Given all that has gone on. What if this guy gets drunk and abusive? Why would you risk exposing your kids to this or the fucked up dynamic?

There comes a point where you need to do you. Your friend is doing her, choosing to bury her head and plan lovely joint family Christmas gatherings like it’s all wonderful.

Why should you be made uncomfortable? Why should your children be sworn at?
To pacify an abuser?

I wouldn't. I'd tell her that you are always there for her. That you would love to meet and be with her. But you refuse to subject yourself to that twat. Her choices do not force you to expose yourself to that thing.

Your friend needs you, She needs support,
At these christmas events be nice to all the other men in the room,smile and be jolly,,,except with him
Ignore him ,ignore his comments like he's not there,,ot give him the death stare,

On a point,,there is no way i would tolerate my child being sworn at,.If it happened again i would gather up my kid and my handbag and be gone,

For the people saying your friend needs you, what if you’ve supported them over the years , always been there, been there at every hour of the day/night and you get nothing back, your friendship is all one sided. Do you still keep supporting them?

@MamaGee09 I feel that massively. That was one reason I had to step away from my friend because it was constant. The hardest thing was that she would say she knows what she needs to do but she "loves him". So that meant the entire of our friendship was her and her relationship and I had to sit and watch her drag her kids through it. No matter how many times I told her she had to put her children before herself, that wasn't enough.

I got to a point where I either had to call social services on her to shit her up or walk away. I chose the latter.

I'd run out of advice and help to give her. I even offered for her and the children to stay with me and I'd help her sort everything out. She chose to stay.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't like officially "end the friendship". I've just backed away and she knows I have.

Back to the OP, I wouldn't attend the Christmas thing. Because he's still winning. And she's not seeing any consequences. The worst part about situations like this is people don't do anything until it's too late.

I’m thankful my -ex- friend doesn’t have children but I can’t continue to support someone who makes out her life’s Is perfect when in reality he’s a fecking arsehole who treats her like shit! She’s fallen out and lost contact with so many people because of him. Everything is always about him and she forgets about everyone else until the next big drama.

I enjoy got enough drama in my own life without added pressure!