To not want to forgive my friend's DH

[WishWeWereStillYoungNCarefree]

More of a WWYD.

Trying to be brief.

Friends husband has been a dick to her for years.

It's recently come to a head. Bad stuff, abusive stuff, happened. He then cheated on her (with the mum of their DCs friend).

For various reasons it's v hard for her to leave. She's indicated she wants to but it's not simple.

Just found out he's reading all her texts. So all our advice texts to her. He's read.

Me and other friend seem to be expected to carry on socialising as normal. Despite fact he knows we hate him, and he hates us.

I can't do it. My DH says we should carry on as normal for her sake. I physically feel like I can't do it. Too much has happened. I hate him.

But don't know what to do for my friend. I care about her so much. She is trying to organise our Christmas get together (families together).

WWYD? Would you socialise with an abusive arsehole for your friends sake?

Has she no one to go and stay with. Women's aid would help

Just do stuff with her without him x yanbu

I think placating him is collusion, just see her and dc. Presume he goes to work so is not around 24/7

Ask your friend what would be best for her.
If she would like you to be there for support, can you go for a very short time?

Will that be the first time you, and your other friend, have seen him since he read your texts?
Is it likely he'll want to cause trouble at the event because of that?

Eladen that is a very thought provoking post

If she is interested in freedom programme... The courses aren't locally advertised, you have to contact them for a place, but this is to protect the women attending. They'll often be in places like children's centres where it's not unusual to see women attending. Other people in the venue won't know why you're there. Nobody in the community will know it's happening.

They don't keep attendance lists, they don't record info about you, they don't tell people you've attended (safeguarding might mean they have to act if you're in danger but they'd tell you and discuss it with you). We signed a fire register each week with first names that was then destroyed.

There is a course book but they can keep it safe for you if you can't safely take it home.

One of the ground rules is that nobody in the group acknowledges each other if they run into you outside of the group. So no risk of having to explain to him how you know that random woman who stopped to say hello in the supermarket.

They won't tell you to leave, won't tell you what to do, won't judge, won't criticise, won't blame.

It's info, not therapy so no talking required if you don't want to. It's not somewhere that everyone stands up to share their life story. Just listening is fine.

The group courses are free to attend and run over 12 weeks or so. Couple of hours per week. Some have creche facilities. The one I went to always had cake and we had a break in the middle to stop it getting too overwhelming.

And the women running it were lovely. There are no men in the groups and no outside observers.

Thanks so much eladen for your message. It's really made me think. Last thing I want to do is apply more pressure.

To the other poster that asks, I haven't seen her DH since it all came to a head. I actually feel very apprehensive about it.

And the abuse hasn't been physical (to my knowledge). Verbal, gaslighting, emotional.

But not physical. So not sure she recognised it as abuse? (It most certainly is)

Also just to clarify, we live quite a way apart and all work full time so seeing each other with kids but without partners is tricky.

Even seeing her on her own is hard and not so often. But we are her closest friends and she doesn't have loads of other people in her support network

I feel like the consensus is to support her and to go? It's actually making me feel panicky because I know he's read my texts and it will be like a huge elephant in the room, with him knowing we all know what he's done?!

One of my best friends is with an emotionally abusive guy. He leaves her if they argue a And stays in a hotel until she ‘behaves’ and apologises and he is so manipulative.

We were all at a park with our kids and he was roaring and screaming at the teenagers who kicked a ball near him.hes honestly vile.

Unfortunately I’m the gobbiest out of all the friends and he’s turned her against me so all ties have been cut, she married him and told us the night before they were getting married and she was so upset that none of the friendship circle were happy for her.

I couldn’t be in the same room as him and obviously due to his nature it made life difficult for our friendship. She’s still friends with 3 of the group, he’s not turned them against her ...... yet!

I feel like the consensus is to support her and to go? It's actually making me feel panicky

Op, I'm really not convinced that you going is a good idea. How panicky will you be on the night, how will your dc be affected by that?

Arrange to meet her on her own and be direct about it. If you stand up to him and say no to his requests, it might even be helpful to her. Even if it's not, I think you have to be realistic about your own limitations. No-one can expect this of you.

You dont have to forgive him OP, but if you can tolerate him it would be very beneficial to your friend and her DC.

There comes a point where you have to stop enabling people to remain in bad situations, we are not aware of the details of this particular situation or the dynamic between them, but obviously you are.

People often remain in bad situations for years, while constantly offloading on and worrying their friends. It's not fair on the friends, and the friends are not doing the person any favours in the long run by putting up with listening to it for years!

Now I understand that you say there has been verbal and emotional abuse but not physical. I can understand why in physically abusive relationships the women often feel like they cannot leave. I understand and have a lot of personal experience in how women can stay in emotionally abusive, coercive or verbally abusive relationships, there are a lot of factors and normally it will take building up some strength to leave or a 'final straw', but unless the verbal or emotional abuse is on the most extreme end of the scale then it is not nearly as hard to leave as it would be if he were physically abusive.

Please note that I don't know this woman, her relationship, what happened, or what the reasons she would find it hard to leave are, but you do.
I am simply making the point that I don't think the answer is always to just support no matter what, in some cases that will mean that the person involved might make no attempts at all to get out of the situation, or might make them stay in a co-dependent relationship when really they need some tough love to make some tough changes!!

You know the situation and the factors involved, we don't, so you will need to decide yourself. I mean you said for various reasons it's hard for her to leave, she wants to, but it's difficult. Are the reasons any more difficult than the normal reasons people have for staying in relationships that they may simply be unhappy in? Financial reasons etc.

He's the one who should feel apprehensive or embarrassed, since he's the one who's behaved appallingly (and now knows that everyone else knows). That's not to say he will act any differently, of course.

I know it's not very nice, but if I felt I had to socialise with him, I'd be looking down on him the whole time (which might possibly help me maintain a level of calm by just thinking all the things I'd not be able to say) and I'd probably try to ignore his presence as much as possible. Not be rude, but not be particularly friendly, either just the minimal level of politeness required to keep the peace. I don't know if that's the best thing to do, but if the alternative is just not seeing your friend at all...

I too have been the abused and I am now out. I have a slightly different view...

If you do go you are condoning his behaviour.

Once you all leave he will say.."see all your good friends, they don't care about you, they don't believe you, they think that you are mad"

If you dont go, no doubt he will point out that she has no friends. But this is not true.

When I finally got out, I have struggled to forgive my friends and family for this failure to stand against him. For their collusion.

Maybe some feel that this is unfair as they were doing it to support me? It just made me feel like I had nowhere to turn and I would watch him chatting away to them and feel so alone. And insane.

If I were you I would speak to your friend. Tell her how you feel. Tell her you love her but you cannot condone his behaviour. Tell her that you are here for her any time she needs it. But please don't feel obliged to go without asking her.

Ask her how she would want you to behave if he did x, y,a. Then consider whether you could genuinely do this.

You are a human being too and you should not put yourself in the line of abuse without this. I would buy her a cheap sim card/phone too, which she can hide from him.

Just my experience.

I wouldn't go. I wouldn't let my kids be treated like that (what did you say/do when he yelled at them?).

Can you arrange the Christmas meetup on neutral territory, a NT property, zoo etc, where drinking isn't permitted - and if he doesn't want to come win-win.

I've been where you are. And to compound it, the abusive H was my DH's BFF. So I was faced with playing 'nice' because he was not only my BFF's abusive husband, he was my DH's best friend. I gritted my teeth and got on with it. It wasn't always easy. I often made excuses to avoid him or sit as far away from him as I could. I made it 'work'.

He and DH had a falling out (I had nothing to do with it) and now he's making my BFF's life difficult for wanting to stay friends with me. But we persevere because we are BFFs and we love each other. She knows he's abusive but she isn't 'there yet' and she knows how I feel. But I will continue to support her and be there for her because I want her to feel free to turn to me without fear of 'I told you so' or 'It's about time'.

Support your friend. If that means being (barely) polite to him, so be it. Because you don't want her to feel you are judging her and you want her to continue to confide it you.

I would say what you think to his face and keep reminding him what an lying cheating controlling abusive twat he is, and remind him your all on to him.

You isolate him, you don’t meet up with him. You have events where he isn’t invited. Let him kick off.

When he read your friends text messages he violated not just her privacy but yours as well.

Like eladen, I’m by no means an Authority on this subject. But unfortunately I can guess exactly how your friend feels. She’s probably feeling very isolated as many friends run for the hills at the first whiff of a problem in a marriage. If they don’t, he’ll soon make sure that they do.
Abusive men can be so incredibly devious. Pretty much all my friends and relatives have gone. I don’t know why, because to my face they tell me just how amazing, supportive and kind he is. That totally confuses me, as they then run for the hills too. I haven’t actually talked to hardly any of them as to what’s going on either. I’m also disabled with a chronic condition and I also know that many marriages suffer and the divorce rate is incredibly high amongst disabled people. .
I’ve got one single friend who has seen this side of my husband and that’s it. She’s amazed that I stay with him but she doesn’t know about social services and what they’ve said. My friend though is overwhelmed herself with her family and now grandchildren, and I don’t want to lean on her. She doesn’t like my husband as she’s seen just how mean and accusatory he is. She’s still upset about how he spoke to her last time he saw her. He claims that he was totally personable with her. But he accused me, when somebody pranged the front of my brand new car and he thinks that I did it. He thinks that I’ve just not admitted it and should come clean. My friend feels that he was trying to get her to confess to seeing me do it, but she wouldn’t. Apparantly her husband was called as she was getting upset. Words were exchanged. This happened sometime ago. I can’t say when because I know SIL is on here.
I was supposed to pick up my new car today, but DH was like an excited child in a sweet shop. He woke me up really early to tell me that he wanted me to get up in an hour so that we could go to the garage!? I felt angry to be woken to be told that, tbh! Especially as he hasn’t allowed me to drive my present car since the accident, over four years ago! So I said that I didn’t feel well enough and just stayed in bed. I guess that’s me controlling him... So we didn’t pick up the car. We’ll do it next week. It’s a notability car btw, which means that it is supposed to be changed every three years, but I haven’t seen anything suitable, until I spotted this one. I just can’t get excited about it though. Especially if he does insist that I drive for appearances, then demands to swap over when we’re out of sight. But this is how controlling men behave.

He’s insisted on controlling the finances since we married. He won’t let me have any access to the joint account. He won’t let me have a card or cheque book. Before I worked, I had the child benefit paid into my account and took birthday and Christmas presents back so that I had some money in this account for emergencies and treating the children ‘on the cheap’ when they were very young. I wanted them to have a decent childhood as I didn’t. When my youngest went to preschool I started a part time job. The more hours that both DC were at school, the more hours I could work. Then it meant that I had some money to treat them during the school holidays. It wasn’t unusual for me to have to go hungry though. He’d leave for work and leave no food in the fridge and no tins of anything. Not milk. He’d either make sure that I didn’t have anything to eat, whilst he made sandwiches for the children the night before. or if we were out he’d openly deny me food. Even cheap food. Or even a cup of tea.
Now I can no longer work, but I do still have an income. Not huge, but enough. Now when I’m at home, I’m left alone for long periods, for ‘walks’. He might, if I’m lucky, leave me two packets of crisps and a banana for breakfast, lunch and dinner(as he did last time). I don’t leave my bedroom as I hate it downstairs since there was a horrible domestic incident which involved the police. My husband insists and done so for years, on sleeping in a different room. We’re not even that old! I have needs, but he doesn’t even kiss me anymore. He looks at me with disgust, and compares my body unfavourably with other women.
Social services were informed by someone anonymously. It was them who involved the police. They are all trying to convince me to leave my husband too.
I’m really struggling with that additional pressure now. It’s all sending me to a dark place. AI feel so guilty. I asked Social Services as to where I’d go? They shrugged their shoulders and told me that I’d have to go into a care home as they deem me to be needing care. I disagreed. I could cope if I was given help as I am now. I just need a roof over my head. But they are absolutely insistent.They won’t budge. To me, they’re behaving as controlling as my husband.
So your friend, OP, will be going through all sorts of things that not even I have mentioned here, otherwise I’d write a book! I’ve mentioned just a little, enough I think to give you an idea of what she’s probably going through, but she’s also certainly not mentioned things because she’s so embarrassed and ashamed. Do buy her a burner phone. She’ll have to hide it exceedingly well though, if her husband’s like mine. I can’t keep any secrets whatsoever from mine, either. He just helps himself and doesn’t ask about going into my handbag or anywhere else. He will be controlling her through ways that you haven’t imagined. But she’s very lucky indeed to have you.
Please don’t leave her. She does need you. She’s desperately lonely, I can guarantee. She really needs you.

These situations are always so complicated, but in the end you have to do what you can for your friend, but what you must for you and your kids.
Similar situation with a friend at the moment. I'm there for her, but her not so 'D' husband has crossed a line I cannot forgive. I will go to see her when he isnt there, she is welcome to mine and we go out alone or with our kids and I talk to her daily. I just can't be around him.

No way would I be around an abusive man with my children. If you carry on as normal then she will never ever leave. Tell the truth that you dont want to be around her husband. But she is welcome anytime round yours. Meet up while hes at work. Think of yourself and your family.

There’s no way I’d be socialising with him. There’s no need to isolate her. You can see her without him there. If you can’t even stand up to him then what chance does she have? Show her that you will not put up with his behaviour and neither should she.

^This

By going to his events you are giving him power over her. He will tell her everyone likes him and that nobody believes her because if they did, they wouldn’t be coming.

@Ippydippyskyblue
Idk what to say to your very frank post. I’m just in awe of your strength. I know what it is to be largely bedridden. How old are your children?

I've recently stopped trying everything with my friend. For a good few years now this has been going on. I hated him prior to them meeting for other reasons, she ignored what I'd said. I spent years being nice to him for her sake. But enough was enough. Years of giving her advice and help, playing along, fighting against it, nothing worked. I stopped taking my children over there almost a year ago because of what was going on and because of him. I've seen her twice this year, last time was May. The amount of time she'd contact me saying he'd taken their baby and run away, or he'd emptied their bank accounts and left them with nothing, spent it on drugs, whatever. She took him back every single time.

I guess the point of my post is there comes a time where you just can't do anything. I had to step away. She knows how to leave, she has to do it herself and there's just no telling people.

I grieve that friendship. We'd been friends for 11 years.