To think that if you want employers to start work at a certain time, they should get paid for it?

[Refreshretry]

My work had recently implemented a new automated clock in system whereby we are paid to the minute. Previously we would have been paid from our start time of 9 but usually we were there a few minutes early to set up, etc. All fine. Start times would be adjusted and rounded up/down to the to reflect this.

The new system says we now have to clock In exactly at 9 and if we are in early we won't get paid for it. Aibu to think if you want people to come in early and start working straight away they should be paid for it? Essentially it's meant that people are either coming in later and not setting up in advance as they are not being paid for it or are losing a couple hours over the course of the week as the extra minutes are now not there. It's causing some tension now as work as people are not happy being essentially asked to work chunks of time for free.

As you're on minimum wage, working beyond the hours you actually are paid for would be illegal. If you are paid from nine then your fingers should merely be poised over the Ctrl-Alt-Del keys at 08:59:59.

I get paid from my book-on time until my book-off time. I get 15 minutes at the start of my shift to collect and set up my equipment, and five minutes at the end to return it.

We do have a committed hour each week so if we over run or I have to fill out an incident report then up to an hour of that is unpaid. It can only be used once each week (and not in part) so if I am delayed by fifteen minutes on Monday and on Tuesday then Tuesday will get overtime.

All agreed by the union.

I'd be willing to be flexible if the company was flexible too.

@bridgetreilly that's total over the week, it includes time at the ends of shifts too, not just the 15 mins at the start. Which actually takes me below my contacted hours.

I think a lot of people who remember they got into work 10mins early or left 10 mins late totally forget the 10 minute trip to the loo or chatting with colleagues about bake off or whatever.

I think a lot of the time it's actually the other way round. When bosses and companies start cribbing about people taking 10 mins here and there they forget about the time to log on and log off, the extra 15 mins when you are stuck on a call and the cover at lunches when it's busy etc.

I would say generally that there are very few people who have the luxury of being paid for every minute they are at work however if they really are only paying the minimum wage i'm not sure how they can legally ask you to come in for 8.45am if you are not being paid until 9am.

I would probably speak to Citizens Advice to see if they are legally allowed to that and it may also depend on how it is framed. You must report for work at 8.45am however will not be paid until 9am is different to it would be great if everyone can be in at 8.45am so we are all ready to go at 9am when you officially clock on.

I don't know what's so wrong about arriving 15 minutes early to prepare for work. Most people do far more than that in their job and don't expect to be paid. Although, you staying any later after your shift is your own choice, they can't make you. Especially not for 2.5hrs plus which you must be doing if you're saying you're losing 4 hrs.

My boss has tried forcing people to do this. Telling them you should be in early, like he does (he arrives an hour early some days and still gets nothing done), rather than start at your start time, and not get paid for it.

I arrive 5 mins before I start deliberately now, and don't login til my shift starts. He is a complete tool in other aspects of the job, hence why I'm leaving. Others will follow.

I don't think it's unreasonable to be ready to start work at 9 rather than come in at 9 ,mak a coffee,go to the loo ,log on etc
But then I hate feeling rushed in the morning

Getting ready to work is work and you should be paid for it

This. If you need to log on or set up in order to work, then that is part of the work.

Otherwise do we only pay chefs when they are actually frying something, rather than trimming and chopping it?

(Silly analogy but I hope it makes the point).

*Getting ready to work is work and you should be paid for it"

So do you time yourself getting dressed, doing your make-up etc and invoice for it?

I start work at 7am, I choose to arrive around 20 minutes early so I can have a brew sometimes have something to eat and get myself ready for the day, I am not paid until 7am but that’s my choice to come in early I hate being on the last minute. Sometimes our night staff have not had time to print off our handover sheets for the morning so as I’m in early I’ll go and do that which means in technically working but it really doesn’t matter to me. I’d rather help them out as I’m already there than have them leave late themselves following a 12 hour night shift 🤷🏼‍♀️

If you don’t get paid til 9 and have such an issue with not being paid for the few minutes you arrive before 9 then arrive bang on time. However if your clocked in and being paid I’d expect you to be sat at your desk working at 9 on the dot. Not coming In taking your coat off and getting sorted

We have a form of flexitime, but they dont want people starting too early. I need to be in by 8:15am at the latest, but due to traffic flow on the commute, I'm often in just after 7:30am. I leave home early to avoid the rush hour bit when traffic goes stop start, which can add 20 mins to the travel time. I get a brew, some breakfast, settle at my desk and then log that time as my start time once I've logged on. My manager is happy with this.

And yes, I'm technically working right now but twiddling my thumbs while I wait a couple of minutes for something to finish. Can't do anything else for a moment.

I'm still not getting the OP's issue.
People used to get in early to set up and get paid for that time, but then there's no real setting up just take your coat of and get to work. Now the manager has decided that people are paid from 9am. Surely they can come in at 8:55, take their coats off and get on? Or is what's happening now people are turning up at 8:55 and then doing all the wander around, make a cup of tea, nip to the loo etc delaying the working day?

I normally get to work 15 mins before I start
I iron my top,have a pee,get changed,get my keys/badge/lip balm together and wander down,clock on and start working
My manager was telling me she’s expected to get there an hour early (unpaid) to catch up before she starts (she does and I don’t agree with this)

I thought what I do is normal

They should not expect you to work for free. If the dont pay you until 9am then dont set up till 9am.
That's the employers issue not yours.
FWIW when I worked in a shop we used to shut 10 mins early so I could be out on time.
We used to tell customers to take it up with head office.

I Must say I find some of the replies on here shocking. My GP's first appointment of the day is at 8. But they don't open the doors until 8 which means that once the 10 people waiting have been checked in, they're running late already.

Another NHS one - I once had a clinic appointment in a hospital where every patient for the first appointment was there in good time, but not a single member of staff was.

Yes, some jobs are low paid, but you don't have to do them if you don't understand that a shop advertising its opening hours until 6pm stays open until 6pm.

In my experience, the lower the pay the more likely the management/company expect you to do extra hours for free.
This! It's been taken to extremes with visiting care workers who don't get paid travel time or for the time they actually have to spend with clients, only for the times they're rostered to be there, which are often nowhere near adequate. In the case of live-in care workers, local authorities don't fund the last 24 hours of the job for the outgoing care worker because, according to someone at the Hertfordshire local authority*, "they [the care workers] don't do much".
*That's what they told the husband of a client, according to him.

I sympathise, OP. I’m retired now, but when I worked as an NHS anaesthetist, I was paid from 9am to 5pm for covering an operating theatre list.
The list started at 9. The surgeons tried to insist that the anaesthetists should be in at 8.30, so the patient would be on the operating table by 9, for them to start cutting.
This would have meant me doing ten hours unpaid work a month.
I refused, and turned up to start at 9 every morning. They stopped moaning when they realised I was a fast worker, having trained in the old days of doing 24 patients a day - I could actually start late and still get the list finished early by 4pm!
However, even if I’d been slow, the principle remains. I’d had enough of exploitation wages and 100 hour weeks as a junior - there was no way I’d accept that shit as a senior.
Don’t turn up until you’re paid to.

I used to work in a place where the bar opened at 11am. There are usually a few things to do before you can serve customers like get ice, chop fruit, put nozzles on, set up the coffee machine, get the milk (delivered daily) all that could take 15 mins - I worked 5 days a week, that's an hour and 15 mins. I was expected to be ready to serve at 11am, but also paid from 11am. Getting myself ready to work as in taking off coat, having a pee etc, my time. Setting up my work area so that it's ready so I can serve is work. They don't pay me when I'm not there, so why should I work for free?
But it's expected and frowned upon if you don't, you're more or less pushed into it. And the employer is pocketing the equivalent of 30 mins a day pay (same as shutting down the bar at the end of the shift)
I've had the same in retail, and care work 15 mins before shift time for handover that isn't paid. No, legally they can't do it, because it drops you below minimum wage, but try kicking up a stink. Most of these jobs are 0 hours, and you start quibbling and that's exactly what you'll get.
And in retail, management are very well aware of customers that know their rights and demand to be served at 5pm 'because the shop's still open' and they are counting on it to not have to pay an extra - the simple answers are to either pay staff longer, or advertise an earlier closing time - they don't do this because they know some customers at least, will do their dirty work for them and ensure unpaid overtime happens. Hope those of you that are enabling this feel good about yourself.

Babdoc that's pretty arrogant. Not specifically in your case but if patients are given a 9am appointment and make all the arrangements in their lives necessary to be in good time for that appointment, only for the consultant to swan in after them and call them in late - well, it's bloody hard to feel much sympathy for the NHS.

cassian
It's not arrogant. I'd get there for 850 so I'm there in good time and things would start at 9. I would always assume that my 9am appointment was the start of the process (eg at 9am the anaesthetists would come in).

Unfortunately public services are being cut and undervalued, but it shouldnt be the expectation that front line workers give, give, give more than they already do (only for the people who complain to repeatedly vote in governments who further slash and try to privatise them).

I once had a job where I walked to work, which meant my journey time was always the same. I would walk through the door at 8.57, power the pc on as I walked past, hang up my coat and be at my desk at 9 on the dot.

Other staff drove or came by public transport, so the vagaries of trains and traffice meant that they were sometimes very late and sometimes quite early.

The fact that I was never in early really pissed my boss off. He couldn't see (largely because he didn't want to imo) that I was never late either!

No-one should be expected to work for nothing imo and setting up is part of the job. It should be paid time (as should clearing away, staff meetings etc).

Shop worker here. We're expected to be 'in' in time for our shift, so maybe ten minutes before we start? I clock in as soon as I arrive, but that means I am available if I'm needed a bit early.

We have to tidy the shop, manager cashes up, lock up etc when we finish, but don't get paid past our finish time. So damn right we don't want people hanging around 'just dashing in for last bits' two minutes before we close. We've been open since 7am, get yourself organised!

Lola when patients are always being told how much them missing appointments costs the NHS, yes, it's arrogant. Like I said in my example - every patient, some elderly, in the clinic I went to was there in good time, ie before the first 9am appointment. Not a single member of staff was there for that 9am appointment, for the clinic to start on time. Not one.