To think that if you want employers to start work at a certain time, they should get paid for it?

[Refreshretry]

My work had recently implemented a new automated clock in system whereby we are paid to the minute. Previously we would have been paid from our start time of 9 but usually we were there a few minutes early to set up, etc. All fine. Start times would be adjusted and rounded up/down to the to reflect this.

The new system says we now have to clock In exactly at 9 and if we are in early we won't get paid for it. Aibu to think if you want people to come in early and start working straight away they should be paid for it? Essentially it's meant that people are either coming in later and not setting up in advance as they are not being paid for it or are losing a couple hours over the course of the week as the extra minutes are now not there. It's causing some tension now as work as people are not happy being essentially asked to work chunks of time for free.

You don't do anything work related until 9am which is when they start paying you. If a set up period is required then managers will begin to notice this and they may think twice about start times. Never ever work for free! Don't be exploited. If they don't care about things not being set up in time then you certainly shouldn't be.

If they’re saying you have to be set up for 9 and setting up is work then that’s not on. If they’re saying you have to be ready for work at 9 and that means getting there at 8.50/55 to hang up coat and have a wee that’s fine.

We need to be at work 10-15 mins before start time to be logged on to all systems and ready to start at start time. You could probably do it in 7-10 mins but it would be a push
I generally go in the building 15 mins before I start to set up

l work in a supermarket and we have to clock in 5 minutes before we start our shift.
However. lt's not as bad as when l worked for another (very well known nationwide) department store in one of their food outlets. We closed at 8pm, but worked until 9pm, stocking up, tidying the shop floor, etc. We were only paid until 9pm. But then..... we'd have a staff meeting. After every shift. Sometimes it was just five minutes, a quick "well done, thanks everybody", sometimes we'd be offered drinks and biscuits, etc. But other times (at least twice a week) it'd be 15-20 minutes. lt used to infuriate me. There was no reason why we couldn't finish on the shop floor at say 8.45pm, then have the meeting so we could be off home at 9pm. A lot of the time, the last 20 minutes on the floor was just 'tidying' for the sake of it, not stocking up or taking stuff to the skips/containers. lt must have worked out at about an hour a week at least, ergo half a day a month. We never got a penny for that.

I class logging on as work.

Anyway, from a payroll perspective it is so much easier to calculate if it is at 15 mins increments.

Anyone working minimum wage who is working an extra 15 mins a day setting up or half an hour after cashing up but is not paid for this is being underpaid and should report this to HMRC.

Logging on and getting ready to work is work! I get paid from the minute I book on, I then have 15 mins to do what I need to etc before my next part of work starts.

Even our walking time is factored in.

The last job I worked in retail was lovely, until the franchise owner started a new policy, whereby we had to arrive on the shop floor to be briefed by the manager about the day’s special offers and targets to achieve. Fine, sounds great, except:

1. It was to be 15 minutes before your shift started, and
2. It was unpaid!

So a quarter of an hour’s extra work per shift, unpaid. Which very quickly becomes at least an hour each week.

I refused to do it. I knew I would be leaving to start a professional job shortly afterwards, so I just didn’t bother.

At my last employer it took up to 40 mins to log in to the computer system (no exaggeration) and up to 20 mins to log off, just because the IT was crap. Why on earth should I not count that hour as working time? I'm ready to work, their computers are not. Not my problem. I worked out that logging in/out cost them 4 working weeks of my time - you wouldn't suggest I give them that for free would you!

Where I work now the IT works so I can be online within 30 seconds. However I have to hotdesk. Quite often my desk is a long way from my drawer so we count that setting up time as work time. We have a temp team member from five floors down who still has to collect their stuff from their draw there - why should they be penalised for that? Not their problem that they've been sent to work on a different floor.

In your situation I would arrive at 9 and not a minute earlier. Set up time should be paid for.

In my experience, the lower the pay the more likely the management/company expect you to do extra hours for free.

When working in a professional job I expect to be paid to do the work, and if that takes a bit longer sometimes, half an hour here or then then so be it as I am getting a good wage. Unless I was getting paid a LOT of money I wouldn't expect it to be long hours of unpaid overtime, just a bit of give and take - and there has always been both.

I briefly, earlier this year did a few weeks in a minimum wage job. Expected to be on the shop floor 5 minutes before start time. Can't leave the shop floor until the last customer has left the shop - turning up at a till with a load of stuff as the shop closes occasionally, so a good 10 minutes. It wouldn't have been happening if I was staying and I did complain on behalf of the other staff - but as low paid workers it was just how they expected to be treated. 6 hour shift - not even a 10 minute break for a cup of coffee and you only 'need' a break if working more than 6 hours - and then it's unpaid.

Now back in a management role, the first thing that happens in work time is getting a cup of coffee. (Frequently still here up to an hour after my official leave time though)

Its not work though is it? If your spending 10 minutes setting up your computer etc then for those 10 minutes your not actually doing anything.

It's part of the working day though. If my computer crashes and takes 20mins to restart should I not be paid for that time?

I got let go from my first ever office job for being openly surprised about this. It took 10 minutes to log on in the morning, same after lunch (the last 10 mins of your lunch hour as you were expected to be taking calls at 1) and then at the end of the day there was a procedure to be followed that took 15 minutes. I said out loud "Really? We have to work 35 minutes a day for nothing? That seems like a lot" - the owner seen the penny dropping in everyone else and I was let go that afternoon for "not fitting in".

I have a work associate , he boasts to anyone unfortunate enough to be in earshot that he has "been in since 7am" but another work colleague gets in at 8, and can see that he hasnt actually started any work by then and generally is looking at (non work) stuff on the computer, having a coffee and chatting until at least 9 Not a problem because he works for himself but it grates that he pretends to work such long hours. I don't know why he doesnt have a lie in and come in at 9am!

Work related activity is work. If they want to have people logged on quickly, they need to turn computers on ready. I come in, switch on my computer, then I'm working. Logging on is work. Reviewing my files and workload is work. Noting changes that have occurred overnight is work. I may not go out into my area for 40 minutes, depending on how much change there has been, but I'm still working. Likewise, storing my files securely is work. Shutting down the computer is work.

Walking to put my mug away is not work, it is just tidying up after myself. Saying by to colleagues is not work, it's just being polite. Walking to/from the car park is not work.

I'm an annually salaried employee now so hours not so specific but worked in plenty of min wage jobs in younger years and god I hate this attitude by companies that they should only pay people for essentially the companies incredibly narrow view of "revenue generating activities".

If you can't perform your role without setting up/logging into systems etc, then setting up/logging in is work and you should be paid for.

I get in 15 mins early but that's because I get a coffee & read the BBC headlines before I start work.

I hate customers being shoved out too. The shop closes at 9.... I get irritated being asked to ensure I make my way to the cash register in order that we can serve you in good time

I'll make my way, when I've done my shopping. I have no desire to be there longer than necessary.

OP... people should arrive in time to start setting up by 9am. That probably means allowing 5 minutes to get through the building.

I still can't see the issue.

If work starts at 9am then you should be at your desk at 9am ready to go (so logging in at 9). You'd arrive at 855 surely to get unpacked, lunch in fridge/coats off etc.

If people get to work at 845, hang their coats up, log in and leave it running, get a cuppa and chat to people and then meander to their desks for 9am then that's fine, but they don't need to be paid for it if their contracted hours are 9am start.

If work are saying that you start at 9am then work related prep begins at 9am. So nobody contracted to start at 9am should be in at 830 setting things up because they're not being paid and work need to pay someone to do it.

@SandyY2K
I hate customers being shoved out too. The shop closes at 9.... I get irritated being asked to ensure I make my way to the cash register in order that we can serve you in good time

I'll make my way, when I've done my shopping. I have no desire to be there longer than necessary.

yes, the shop closes at 9pm, so you need to be checked out and out of the building by 9pm, not just after - out by 9

I get into work around half an hour before my start time, as I have no intention of getting caught by the start of the school run.

First thing I do once I've taken my coat off is fire up the PC and log on. And then I wander off for my coffee, a chat, anything to keep me away from my desk. With ten minutes to go, I'm checking bbc news and sipping coffee whilst any early calls go to voicemail. If there is a sudden emergency, I'll deal with that, but otherwise, I'm at my desk and ready to start work - I'm not working, though.

The moment the clock ticks over to my start time, I start working and only stop when I have my break or it's the end of the day, at which point, I log off, stand up and walk out. The boss thinks I'm great. I'm not working for free for anybody, though - I'm done with people paid ten times my salary complaining they've been there unpaid for four hours past their finish time and writing emails at 3am, then expecting me to do as they do.

I’ve had this in a previous employment where an extra 15 mins expected at the start/ end of the day.
I phoned acas who said if I started at 9 then the only time I needed to be in before it was enough time to take my jacket/ bag off etc.
Just don’t go in until clock in time.

I used to be a nurse, we did 7:30-7:30
We got in at 7:20 for handover and sometimes didn't leave until 7:45 depending on what kind of shift it had been. I also worked somewhere where they took half an hour break off you which I never got to take as we were short staffed. Did we get paid for the extra time? Yeah right. One of the reasons I'm no longer a nurse!

Urgh. I do understand but hate jobsworth attitude. I have a professional role so dont have this whole obsession with only doing your contacted hours and not working for free. I do work long hours to get my job done when I have to. I also have flexibility to fit my life around my work. I think a lot of people who remember they got into work 10mins early or left 10 mins late totally forget the 10 minute trip to the loo or chatting with colleagues about bake off or whatever.

Mind you Id never expect to stay in a shop past closing time. Id think that unfair on the staff.

Surely you just arrive to start setting up at 9. Why work for free?!

Basically it's that we are expected to be in and setting up at 8:45 but are only paid from 9. We used to be paid the extra but now we aren't and same at the end of the day, I've lost 4hrs last week from my pay purely because of this which is not an insignificant difference when you are on minimum wage and every penny counts!

It's a shop so every staff member walks in, takes coat off and starts working. No computer log ins, no coffees, no chatting, maybe a quick loo break but otherwise straight into work. So now staff are arriving at 8:55 instead and using the paid time once clocked in to set up, which I think is fair enough since we aren't getting paid for it now.

Sounds normal to me. I technically am paid 10-6. Some days I do 10.06 to 7, sometimes 8-7. It's shit but I'm not paid more. You set up when you get to work?

I don't understand how you lost 4 hours in a week from a system that is taking an extra 15 minutes a day from you. But in any case, staff arriving at 8.55am is perfectly reasonable and what you should all be doing. So it sounds fine to me.